Where's the flooding?

ryanwigginton · 04-25-07, 01:28 AM

This is my first post although I've been visiting this site for a while now. It's just a niggle really. Why can't we see the compartments filling up with water in game? How hard would it be... really? Perhaps a good idea for a mod maybe. It just seems they've took the easy way out on this.

On a good note, I'm really impressed with the devs commitment to patches so well done there.

Snowman999 · 04-25-07, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanwigginton

This is my first post although I've been visiting this site for a while now. It's just a niggle really. Why can't we see the compartments filling up with water in game? How hard would it be... really? Perhaps a good idea for a mod maybe. It just seems they've took the easy way out on this.

On a good note, I'm really impressed with the devs commitment to patches so well done there.

They do fill up. See the blue bar over the top of the compartment name? That's water.

Sailor Steve · 04-25-07, 10:32 AM

Oh yeah? Well, welcome aboard!

SteamWake · 04-25-07, 10:33 AM

Very good thread discussing this and other damage control issues here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109849

Welcome have fun.

Grey_Raven75 · 04-25-07, 11:39 AM

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think he means why don't the actual compartments flood? When you're standing in the the command room, why isn't water flowing in?

SteamWake · 04-25-07, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey_Raven75

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think he means why don't the actual compartments flood? When you're standing in the the command room, why isn't water flowing in?

Because it isnt modeled ?

Grey_Raven75 · 04-25-07, 11:45 AM

Uh, I think that's his question.

Chock · 04-25-07, 11:49 AM

To display flooding in the 3D compartments of the sub would probably not technically be that difficult in theory. Essentially all it would require is a blue/grey-coloured box that was larger than the camera zones, made semi-transparent and cued to move upwards at a certain rate when flooding was occurring.

But I suspect that this might have been tried and found to bring a lot of problems with it. It is likely that such a feature would cause unsightly texture clashes with the sub's interior, and even if it didn't, it would perhaps be tricky to get it looking right under red AND normal lighting.

You can see where texture problems occur with the lighting in SH4 already because of 3D engine limitations, when you look at the crew, where their eyes look a little wierd under red light.

Adding water to the internal compartments would likely also cause problems if the water modeling from the main 3D world were to be used, because of the way the reflections work, in that they don't seem to take account of visibility conditions.

For an example of this, check out a ship at long range through the TBT or periscope in foggy conditions. What you'll notice is that despite the poor visibility, the 3D engine is still drawing the reflection of the ship on the water, which is a shame, as you can use this as a bit of a cheat to see roughly where ships will be when they are not actually in visual range yet. Of course this feature might actually be a plus point if you were trying to make water appear inside the sub, but maybe not.

One other problem would be that the crew would have to react to the water, otherwise in extreme flooding you'd have the guys at the dive plane controls casually sat underwater still at their stations, which would ruin the immersion, if you'll pardon the pun.

If you still desperately want flooding on your sub when it is damaged, you might want to try this:

Open the Water Burst 1 and Water Burst 2 sound files in the SH4 sounds folder and have a listen to them, whichever one you like the least, you can alter. Create a water sloshing about WAV file (most sound effect CDs will have one, or you might find on on the web, or you could try recording one with a bathtub full of water - careful though, electricity and water do not mix together in a friendly fashion). When you have a decent sound, save it with the same name as your least favourite water burst sound and replace it in the SH4 sounds folder. Back up your original files so you can change it back if you don't like it. Be careful not to make the sound too long, or it might cause looping problems and try and make it have a silence gap at the ends, so that it can loop without a noticeable jump. Testing a mod like this will be a pain in the ass though, as you'll need a save file with flooding occurring so you can check that it is working OK in game.

And don't forget a towel and a wrench to fix the leak

Snowman999 · 04-25-07, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey_Raven75

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think he means why don't the actual compartments flood? When you're standing in the the command room, why isn't water flowing in?

Re-read quesiton and I agree.

For me, I wouldn't know since I've never had flooding in the one (1) compartment modeled. <g>

Quillan · 04-25-07, 03:21 PM

I've seen water in both the command room and the conning tower, but it's not standing water. It's just water spraying in from a cracked pipe or valve in the overhead of the compartment, making a nice shower. No water accumulated.

ryanwigginton · 04-26-07, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chock

To display flooding in the 3D compartments of the sub would probably not technically be that difficult in theory. Essentially all it would require is a blue/grey-coloured box that was larger than the camera zones, made semi-transparent and cued to move upwards at a certain rate when flooding was occurring.

But I suspect that this might have been tried and found to bring a lot of problems with it. It is likely that such a feature would cause unsightly texture clashes with the sub's interior, and even if it didn't, it would perhaps be tricky to get it looking right under red AND normal lighting.

You can see where texture problems occur with the lighting in SH4 already because of 3D engine limitations, when you look at the crew, where their eyes look a little wierd under red light...

Thanks for the VERY comprehensive answer. A little spray just seems a bit lame when you've got these great gaping holes in the external view. Ah well, fingers crossed for the next installment then -perhaps Russian subs??

Another question... when you refit is your damage repaired. For me it dissappeared off the 3D model, but when I dived below about 80 ft it was obvious I still had a dodgy hull because my sub started falling to bits.

SteamWake · 04-26-07, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chock

To display flooding in the 3D compartments of the sub would probably not technically be that difficult in theory. Essentially all it would require is a blue/grey-coloured box that was larger than the camera zones, made semi-transparent and cued to move upwards at a certain rate when flooding was occurring.

Meh the complaints of "not realistic" would soon follow. Espically when the outside water is so well modeled.

"Why doesent the water slosh and splash around ? How come theres no reflections ? How come the water doesent short out the electronics ?" etc etc etc.

As to the sub "repair" at refit. As I understand it they can slap a band aid on the fixes but in order to get truely "repaired" you have to dock at your home port.

Chock · 04-26-07, 11:48 AM

Yup, if they'd made your simulated sub function exactly the same as the real thing down to the last weld, I guess some people would still complain about the ice-cream maker not making the right sort of iced cream
:rotfl:

04-25-07, 01:28 AM	#1
ryanwigginton Weps Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 368 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 0	Where's the flooding? This is my first post although I've been visiting this site for a while now. It's just a niggle really. Why can't we see the compartments filling up with water in game? How hard would it be... really? Perhaps a good idea for a mod maybe. It just seems they've took the easy way out on this. On a good note, I'm really impressed with the devs commitment to patches so well done there.

04-25-07, 10:32 AM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Oh yeah? Well, welcome aboard! __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

04-25-07, 11:39 AM	#5
Grey_Raven75 Mate Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 60 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Maybe I'm wrong, but I think he means why don't the actual compartments flood? When you're standing in the the command room, why isn't water flowing in? __________________ "If you don't know history, you don't know anything. You are a leaf that doesn't know it is part of a tree." --Edward Johnston

04-25-07, 11:45 AM	#7
Grey_Raven75 Mate Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 60 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Uh, I think that's his question. __________________ "If you don't know history, you don't know anything. You are a leaf that doesn't know it is part of a tree." --Edward Johnston

04-25-07, 11:49 AM	#8
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	To display flooding in the 3D compartments of the sub would probably not technically be that difficult in theory. Essentially all it would require is a blue/grey-coloured box that was larger than the camera zones, made semi-transparent and cued to move upwards at a certain rate when flooding was occurring. But I suspect that this might have been tried and found to bring a lot of problems with it. It is likely that such a feature would cause unsightly texture clashes with the sub's interior, and even if it didn't, it would perhaps be tricky to get it looking right under red AND normal lighting. You can see where texture problems occur with the lighting in SH4 already because of 3D engine limitations, when you look at the crew, where their eyes look a little wierd under red light. Adding water to the internal compartments would likely also cause problems if the water modeling from the main 3D world were to be used, because of the way the reflections work, in that they don't seem to take account of visibility conditions. For an example of this, check out a ship at long range through the TBT or periscope in foggy conditions. What you'll notice is that despite the poor visibility, the 3D engine is still drawing the reflection of the ship on the water, which is a shame, as you can use this as a bit of a cheat to see roughly where ships will be when they are not actually in visual range yet. Of course this feature might actually be a plus point if you were trying to make water appear inside the sub, but maybe not. One other problem would be that the crew would have to react to the water, otherwise in extreme flooding you'd have the guys at the dive plane controls casually sat underwater still at their stations, which would ruin the immersion, if you'll pardon the pun. If you still desperately want flooding on your sub when it is damaged, you might want to try this: Open the Water Burst 1 and Water Burst 2 sound files in the SH4 sounds folder and have a listen to them, whichever one you like the least, you can alter. Create a water sloshing about WAV file (most sound effect CDs will have one, or you might find on on the web, or you could try recording one with a bathtub full of water - careful though, electricity and water do not mix together in a friendly fashion). When you have a decent sound, save it with the same name as your least favourite water burst sound and replace it in the SH4 sounds folder. Back up your original files so you can change it back if you don't like it. Be careful not to make the sound too long, or it might cause looping problems and try and make it have a silence gap at the ends, so that it can loop without a noticeable jump. Testing a mod like this will be a pain in the ass though, as you'll need a save file with flooding occurring so you can check that it is working OK in game. And don't forget a towel and a wrench to fix the leak Last edited by Chock; 04-25-07 at 03:31 PM.

04-25-07, 10:33 AM	#4
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Very good thread discussing this and other damage control issues here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109849 Welcome have fun.

04-25-07, 03:21 PM	#10
Quillan Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 579 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I've seen water in both the command room and the conning tower, but it's not standing water. It's just water spraying in from a cracked pipe or valve in the overhead of the compartment, making a nice shower. No water accumulated. __________________ We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

04-26-07, 11:48 AM	#13
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yup, if they'd made your simulated sub function exactly the same as the real thing down to the last weld, I guess some people would still complain about the ice-cream maker not making the right sort of iced cream :rotfl: