Damage control explained heavy pics

AVGWarhawk · 03-29-07, 08:53 PM

Before I left port I recruited some of the swabs hanging around. I put them in the damage control compartments on the crew screen and this is all they did.....damage control.

On the way to port I was lollygaggin and got whacked by some planes. As you can see, stern is down and flooding is critical. Not a good situation.

As you can see my bulkhead in the stern is toast. The dark red line indicates heavy damage. I set the boys on this because they have already repaired the pump. I made this priority one on the pumps. Note the darker red on bulkhead in the priority page. The dark red means the boys are working on it. Please note the blue over the badly damaged bulkhead. This indicates flooding. Critical at that. Although the pumps are working the stern is too far gone. The party is over.

As you can see I have made all repairs but stern still down and the I suspect the hull damage is very bad after seeing this. I'm currently now making 15kts after repairing the diesels. Before I was making 11kts. I left the decoy for last. No decoys in US subs anyway. My stern is still blue in color indicating still filling with water. Again, my party is over.

Please note the swabs I have in the repair business. Again, I got them aboard for this only or if needed elsewhere.

Now, I could have continued on to port like this. Provided I was not attacked again and getting hit. But I was in testing mode at this point and decided to go to periscope depth. As noted before the bulk head was just about dead even though it was patched up as best possible. It was too far gone and started to crush as I submerged. There was no hope. I pressed on for blowing ballast. I came up some but it was not enough. Down I went. Please note the time it took to repair. Just about all morning.

Before you leave port recruite some grunts to do the damage control. With time maybe they will get more proficient. Damage control works if you handle it properly. The dark red is the damaged parts and the very dark red vertical lines mean very bad depending on how high they go. Repair priority is set in the box in the middle. Click it and it will turn a darker red. Repairs will begin. Always fix pumps to get the water out first and then the bulkheads. Repair times are longer in SH4 than SH3. Not all repairs will last as you can see. I could have motored home on the surface but just periscope depth sent me to the bottom. Your the captain so make you best guess after a beating like this.

I hope this helps.

tater · 03-29-07, 09:10 PM

Nice post.

I think that many people complaining about the DC think that once fixed by a DC party, it's good as new. I'd be surprised if that was the case. It's like Il-2: if you get hit by enemy fire enough to leak or at all compromise the aerodynamics of the plane---GO HOME. RTB. Run. The same is true of subs. If a distant DC bangs you up a little, by all means continue the patrol. OTOH, if you take the kind of damage you clearly took, even if repaired discretion would say to RTB. Anyone who thinks at sea DC is any kind of definitive repair deserves the sinking they will likely get IMO.

Jungman · 03-29-07, 09:36 PM

If repairing the bulkhead has no effect then why even allow it to be repaired?

Would it not be better to just let it display the damage so you know how bad that compartment is?

I read that you cannot pump out at room unless the bulkhead is repaired first. Is this true? This would compound the problem.

Tobowsi · 03-29-07, 10:02 PM

Nice post with screenies. I ended up doing what you've done and got a DC crew in port as well.

The problem I have with DC is that in my experience/testing, it seems that once any bulkhead is damaged, submerging even to periscope death results in loss of the sub, even after you're told the bulkhead is repaired and "pressure hull intact". You also get the impression everything is no longer damaged.

When something is destroyed, it stays full red and doesn't show up in the repair box below, because you can't do anything to fix it. (They did that correctly.) You know you don't have it anymore. However, when any bulkhead is repaired, even if there are others still needing to be worked on, you get a message saying "pressure hull intact". Then the bulkhead icon becomes the normal color with no red damage bar. It's natural to assume at that point that the item is repaired.

If they can't fix something "good as new", maybe they should tell you that. Have the icon become yellow to indicate the item is repaired as well as possible underway but still damaged and needs to be repaired in port.

It's also plain stupid to tell you textually and verbally "pressure hull intact" and as soon as you submerge even to PD, you hear "we have flooding" and you sink like a rock.

If you've taken on damage, maybe a crewman should tell you a maximum recommended depth, or suggest you don't dive at all, but don't tell us everything is repaired and that the pressure hull is intact if they're not.

I like how things aren't instantly fixed like before and you can prioritize the repairs, but it'd be nice if they'd tell you they can't do any more repair to an item (lack of tools, parts, etc). If you put your mouse over the damage bar for an item, you see a decimal value, but it'd be nice if the repair crew could give you an estimate on repair times to help you prioritize.

I can certainly understand items only being repaired to a point and agree with that in theory, but I think that should be indicated on the damage screen. I just don't think a glance at the damage screen should tell you the sub is structurally sound and as soon as you expose it to around 3 atm of pressure at PD, you take on flooding and end up losing the sub.

Rip · 03-29-07, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jungman

If repairing the bulkhead has no effect then why even allow it to be repaired?

Would it not be better to just let it display the damage so you know how bad that compartment is?

I read that you cannot pump out at room unless the bulkhead is repaired first. Is this true? This would compound the problem.

I would guess the repairs are only temp emergency repairs to stop the water coming in. That doesn't mean it will hold up under pressure. I kind of like this. maybe they will be able to implement some realism settings for it. It would be nice to have some variety as to how much pressure it takes to cause the emergency repairs to fail. It would even be cool to me for any system that has been seriously damaged and repaired might have an increaded cjance of failing again or being destroyed if stricken again.

tater · 03-29-07, 10:23 PM

Almost no field repair would be "good as new." It would still be useful to let you know in case you saved a campaign, and forgot about it for a while I guess.In the meantime, If I have a tough scrape I'm gonna not be greedy and RTB. Worst case you "refit" (assuming that resets all damage to "good as new").

tater

DeePsix501 · 03-29-07, 10:48 PM

I played some multiplayer with Devilthorn earlier and he took some Depth charges across the bow causing some serious flooding. He managed to repair it and surface but as soon as he dived again he lost control and down she went. Very real and very cool. Gives you the feeling of limping home in a bomber with one engine.

Does the dmg control sleep when not on duty or are they always getting fatigued. Usualy I take the watch crew and put them on dmg control because under water they arent doing anything.

Tobowsi · 03-29-07, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeePsix501

Does the dmg control sleep when not on duty or are they always getting fatigued.

I've seen them sleep when they're not on duty. They also seem to gain experience even when they're not on duty as well. I guess they tinker and do basic maintenance when you're not telling them to help save the boat.

DeePsix501 · 03-29-07, 11:02 PM

Alrighty then, I guess i'll fill up the Damage Control team! I thought they would not sleep and get fatigued but I was wrong

ccruner13 · 03-29-07, 11:05 PM

but the emergency repairs dont just fail its the entire sub. ive taken bulkhead damage and submerged before actually multiple had damage. but then other times only one will take damage and i cant go under atall. it would make sense that perhaps your aft torpedo room would flood again but why would the whole sub?
in my last career go i shot myself with a torpedo

while i was in enemy harbor...so where i was at in depth i stayed but my front end tilted down to the ground. i blew balast and my tail surfaced then a blew a few more and i went all the way up. deckguned what i could see then took off for home. it was stormy as hell so the two destroyers nearby couldnt see me...somehow i was being pinged the whole time too? heh but...my damage was so severe i could only go 11 kts and only made it about halfway from japan to midway and 63% fuel. i tried to go at 1 kt but it only gave me estimate of 400nm

how i was floating ill never know. i actually got jumped by a bomber and shot him down before he got to me lol. then i couldnt make it home so i tried to submerge my hundreds place looked like a 1/10 second place on a digital timer and hit the seafloor at 1623 ft somehow :rotfl:

bookworm_020 · 03-29-07, 11:14 PM

That picture is kinda creepy

, Looking into a sub from the outside is not a pleasent experience. Unless the sub happens to be an enemy!!

tater · 03-29-07, 11:18 PM

Is a fuel leak not modeled? Not that it would matter for players since the batteries recharge without engines on, right?

ccruner13 · 03-29-07, 11:36 PM

aye. too bad i blew up my battery with that torpedo...couldnt submerge anyway but yea. fuel leaks in several seconds when you are get destroyed and all your crap is blowing up. one time i sat around for a little bit outside midway not using any engines and my fuel went down from 99-97 too? if only i could have radioed in for a tow or some gojuice

Jungman · 03-30-07, 12:18 AM

The DC model has something in common from SH3. In SH3 if one compartment became 100% flooded, it was considered destroyed and all inside die in tha compartment and the whole sub is destroyed.

In SH4, I took an air bomb in the Aft Torpedo Room. My Aft Torpedo Room Bulkhead was destoyed 100% and flooded 100% while I was on the surface the whole time.

To my amazement, the crew in the aft were only wounded, but they would not fix anything. The DC team was able to fix a ASFAIK 100% red destroyed bulkhead completely. Then they pumped out the 100% full water. I was even able to transfer men in and out of that Room even though it was 100% flooded!

Anyway, after all my repairs indicated I was completely back to new shape. I order periscope depth and the rear end sunk like a rock with my front end sticking way up in the air as if the aft torpedo room was really still 100% flooded and weight down instantly.

This occurs immediately at soon as I started a slow dive at zero speed a few feet down into the water.
-------------
Does this also happen with just a small amount of damage to any BulKhead damage? I could see it would reduce overall hull integrity and ability to go deep; but one scratch and the whole submarine sinks like a rock as soon as you dive a few feet??

Edit:

AVGWarhawk: In your picture above with the Bulkhead completely repaired, your Aft Torpedo Room is still displaying 100% flooded (blue color). So that would tell you that if you dive like that, your rear end is going to pull you down to the bottom from the water weight?

Tat2demon · 03-30-07, 12:41 AM

I had almost the exact same situation yesterday as the OP.

I got absolutly hosed after losing my patience wating for destroyers to leave after I crippled a couple merchants. I tried to stay submerged but two of my targets were slowly getting away and the destroyers just wouldnt give up.

As soon as one of them passed over me I ordered flank speed and an emergency blow. As soon as I surfaced I manned the deck gun and started firing explosive rounds near the stern areas. Its funny how fast they go down when you hit their DCs. :P

Anyway, I was able to take down 3 destroyers and 5 assorted merchants with a mix of torpedoes and my trusty deck gun. Needless to say I was prety messed up at the end.

My Damage Control team did a wonderfull job, but my aft torpedo room was flooded. As soon as I would start a dive the stern would start sinking very fast. The only way to stay afloat was to run flank speed.

Over the coarse of about 3 days the aft torpedo room slowly got pumped out. It wasnt until it was about 70% dry that I was able to dive again.

It was quite a fun 3 days constantly shooting down Jap aircraft while the pumps did their work.

Moral of the story, Dont dive with water in your aft!

Oh, and learn to love your Damage Control Team. I always have it full with as many repair skilled men as I can get.

03-29-07, 08:53 PM	#1
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Damage control explained heavy pics Before I left port I recruited some of the swabs hanging around. I put them in the damage control compartments on the crew screen and this is all they did.....damage control. On the way to port I was lollygaggin and got whacked by some planes. As you can see, stern is down and flooding is critical. Not a good situation. As you can see my bulkhead in the stern is toast. The dark red line indicates heavy damage. I set the boys on this because they have already repaired the pump. I made this priority one on the pumps. Note the darker red on bulkhead in the priority page. The dark red means the boys are working on it. Please note the blue over the badly damaged bulkhead. This indicates flooding. Critical at that. Although the pumps are working the stern is too far gone. The party is over. As you can see I have made all repairs but stern still down and the I suspect the hull damage is very bad after seeing this. I'm currently now making 15kts after repairing the diesels. Before I was making 11kts. I left the decoy for last. No decoys in US subs anyway. My stern is still blue in color indicating still filling with water. Again, my party is over. Please note the swabs I have in the repair business. Again, I got them aboard for this only or if needed elsewhere. Now, I could have continued on to port like this. Provided I was not attacked again and getting hit. But I was in testing mode at this point and decided to go to periscope depth. As noted before the bulk head was just about dead even though it was patched up as best possible. It was too far gone and started to crush as I submerged. There was no hope. I pressed on for blowing ballast. I came up some but it was not enough. Down I went. Please note the time it took to repair. Just about all morning. Before you leave port recruite some grunts to do the damage control. With time maybe they will get more proficient. Damage control works if you handle it properly. The dark red is the damaged parts and the very dark red vertical lines mean very bad depending on how high they go. Repair priority is set in the box in the middle. Click it and it will turn a darker red. Repairs will begin. Always fix pumps to get the water out first and then the bulkheads. Repair times are longer in SH4 than SH3. Not all repairs will last as you can see. I could have motored home on the surface but just periscope depth sent me to the bottom. Your the captain so make you best guess after a beating like this. I hope this helps. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road Last edited by AVGWarhawk; 03-30-07 at 09:48 AM.

03-29-07, 10:48 PM	#7
DeePsix501 Navy Dude Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 173 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I played some multiplayer with Devilthorn earlier and he took some Depth charges across the bow causing some serious flooding. He managed to repair it and surface but as soon as he dived again he lost control and down she went. Very real and very cool. Gives you the feeling of limping home in a bomber with one engine. Does the dmg control sleep when not on duty or are they always getting fatigued. Usualy I take the watch crew and put them on dmg control because under water they arent doing anything. __________________ In Memory of the USS Triton (SS-201) - May We Never Forget Those On Eternal Patrol

03-29-07, 11:02 PM	#9
DeePsix501 Navy Dude Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 173 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Alrighty then, I guess i'll fill up the Damage Control team! I thought they would not sleep and get fatigued but I was wrong __________________ In Memory of the USS Triton (SS-201) - May We Never Forget Those On Eternal Patrol

03-29-07, 11:14 PM	#11
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	That picture is kinda creepy, Looking into a sub from the outside is not a pleasent experience. Unless the sub happens to be an enemy!! __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

03-30-07, 12:18 AM	#14
Jungman Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 596 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The DC model has something in common from SH3. In SH3 if one compartment became 100% flooded, it was considered destroyed and all inside die in tha compartment and the whole sub is destroyed. In SH4, I took an air bomb in the Aft Torpedo Room. My Aft Torpedo Room Bulkhead was destoyed 100% and flooded 100% while I was on the surface the whole time. To my amazement, the crew in the aft were only wounded, but they would not fix anything. The DC team was able to fix a ASFAIK 100% red destroyed bulkhead completely. Then they pumped out the 100% full water. I was even able to transfer men in and out of that Room even though it was 100% flooded! Anyway, after all my repairs indicated I was completely back to new shape. I order periscope depth and the rear end sunk like a rock with my front end sticking way up in the air as if the aft torpedo room was really still 100% flooded and weight down instantly. This occurs immediately at soon as I started a slow dive at zero speed a few feet down into the water. ------------- Does this also happen with just a small amount of damage to any BulKhead damage? I could see it would reduce overall hull integrity and ability to go deep; but one scratch and the whole submarine sinks like a rock as soon as you dive a few feet?? Edit: AVGWarhawk: In your picture above with the Bulkhead completely repaired, your Aft Torpedo Room is still displaying 100% flooded (blue color). So that would tell you that if you dive like that, your rear end is going to pull you down to the bottom from the water weight? Last edited by Jungman; 03-30-07 at 12:30 AM.

03-29-07, 09:10 PM	#2
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Nice post. I think that many people complaining about the DC think that once fixed by a DC party, it's good as new. I'd be surprised if that was the case. It's like Il-2: if you get hit by enemy fire enough to leak or at all compromise the aerodynamics of the plane---GO HOME. RTB. Run. The same is true of subs. If a distant DC bangs you up a little, by all means continue the patrol. OTOH, if you take the kind of damage you clearly took, even if repaired discretion would say to RTB. Anyone who thinks at sea DC is any kind of definitive repair deserves the sinking they will likely get IMO.

03-29-07, 09:36 PM	#3
Jungman Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 596 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	If repairing the bulkhead has no effect then why even allow it to be repaired? Would it not be better to just let it display the damage so you know how bad that compartment is? I read that you cannot pump out at room unless the bulkhead is repaired first. Is this true? This would compound the problem.

03-29-07, 10:02 PM	#4
Tobowsi Seaman Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 36 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Nice post with screenies. I ended up doing what you've done and got a DC crew in port as well. The problem I have with DC is that in my experience/testing, it seems that once any bulkhead is damaged, submerging even to periscope death results in loss of the sub, even after you're told the bulkhead is repaired and "pressure hull intact". You also get the impression everything is no longer damaged. When something is destroyed, it stays full red and doesn't show up in the repair box below, because you can't do anything to fix it. (They did that correctly.) You know you don't have it anymore. However, when any bulkhead is repaired, even if there are others still needing to be worked on, you get a message saying "pressure hull intact". Then the bulkhead icon becomes the normal color with no red damage bar. It's natural to assume at that point that the item is repaired. If they can't fix something "good as new", maybe they should tell you that. Have the icon become yellow to indicate the item is repaired as well as possible underway but still damaged and needs to be repaired in port. It's also plain stupid to tell you textually and verbally "pressure hull intact" and as soon as you submerge even to PD, you hear "we have flooding" and you sink like a rock. If you've taken on damage, maybe a crewman should tell you a maximum recommended depth, or suggest you don't dive at all, but don't tell us everything is repaired and that the pressure hull is intact if they're not. I like how things aren't instantly fixed like before and you can prioritize the repairs, but it'd be nice if they'd tell you they can't do any more repair to an item (lack of tools, parts, etc). If you put your mouse over the damage bar for an item, you see a decimal value, but it'd be nice if the repair crew could give you an estimate on repair times to help you prioritize. I can certainly understand items only being repaired to a point and agree with that in theory, but I think that should be indicated on the damage screen. I just don't think a glance at the damage screen should tell you the sub is structurally sound and as soon as you expose it to around 3 atm of pressure at PD, you take on flooding and end up losing the sub.

03-29-07, 10:23 PM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Almost no field repair would be "good as new." It would still be useful to let you know in case you saved a campaign, and forgot about it for a while I guess.In the meantime, If I have a tough scrape I'm gonna not be greedy and RTB. Worst case you "refit" (assuming that resets all damage to "good as new"). tater

03-29-07, 11:05 PM	#10
ccruner13 Navy Dude Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 175 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	but the emergency repairs dont just fail its the entire sub. ive taken bulkhead damage and submerged before actually multiple had damage. but then other times only one will take damage and i cant go under atall. it would make sense that perhaps your aft torpedo room would flood again but why would the whole sub? in my last career go i shot myself with a torpedo while i was in enemy harbor...so where i was at in depth i stayed but my front end tilted down to the ground. i blew balast and my tail surfaced then a blew a few more and i went all the way up. deckguned what i could see then took off for home. it was stormy as hell so the two destroyers nearby couldnt see me...somehow i was being pinged the whole time too? heh but...my damage was so severe i could only go 11 kts and only made it about halfway from japan to midway and 63% fuel. i tried to go at 1 kt but it only gave me estimate of 400nm how i was floating ill never know. i actually got jumped by a bomber and shot him down before he got to me lol. then i couldnt make it home so i tried to submerge my hundreds place looked like a 1/10 second place on a digital timer and hit the seafloor at 1623 ft somehow :rotfl:

03-29-07, 11:18 PM	#12
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Is a fuel leak not modeled? Not that it would matter for players since the batteries recharge without engines on, right?

03-29-07, 11:36 PM	#13
ccruner13 Navy Dude Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 175 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	aye. too bad i blew up my battery with that torpedo...couldnt submerge anyway but yea. fuel leaks in several seconds when you are get destroyed and all your crap is blowing up. one time i sat around for a little bit outside midway not using any engines and my fuel went down from 99-97 too? if only i could have radioed in for a tow or some gojuice

03-30-07, 12:41 AM	#15
Tat2demon Watch Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 20 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I had almost the exact same situation yesterday as the OP. I got absolutly hosed after losing my patience wating for destroyers to leave after I crippled a couple merchants. I tried to stay submerged but two of my targets were slowly getting away and the destroyers just wouldnt give up. As soon as one of them passed over me I ordered flank speed and an emergency blow. As soon as I surfaced I manned the deck gun and started firing explosive rounds near the stern areas. Its funny how fast they go down when you hit their DCs. :P Anyway, I was able to take down 3 destroyers and 5 assorted merchants with a mix of torpedoes and my trusty deck gun. Needless to say I was prety messed up at the end. My Damage Control team did a wonderfull job, but my aft torpedo room was flooded. As soon as I would start a dive the stern would start sinking very fast. The only way to stay afloat was to run flank speed. Over the coarse of about 3 days the aft torpedo room slowly got pumped out. It wasnt until it was about 70% dry that I was able to dive again. It was quite a fun 3 days constantly shooting down Jap aircraft while the pumps did their work. Moral of the story, Dont dive with water in your aft! Oh, and learn to love your Damage Control Team. I always have it full with as many repair skilled men as I can get.