Godlike DD Bug - GWX

[The Renegade]

Okay so I'm on my first patrol at the very beginning of 1939 and I have encountered this "bug" a few times. Before I start, I am using GWX 1.0, without any updates(yet), it is 1939, and I really don't know if this is a bug or not, but it seems like one to me. Also, this may have already been resolved or asked about, but I honestly tried to "Search" the forum for similar topics and I didn't find anything. So here goes.

As I said, it's 1939, and I'm still on my first patrol with GWX. I figure that it's 1939, and so any attempts at ASW will be pretty pathetic and I will have a jolly time sinking ships and slipping away . But no, seems that Churchill has thrown a curve at me....

The first time I experienced Mr. Godlike DD was just after a convoy attack, a somewhat botched one, where I ended up getting one ship. A destroyer and a corvette came over to reward me with barrels 'o fun, but I managed to evade most of it and take only very light damage. I saved while I was underwater (a no-no, I know), and when I loaded it back up, I watched the destroyer quickly steam back to the convoy, leaving the corvette to deal with me. I found it odd, but hey, one less ship to deal with, and soon the corvette had run out of DC's, so I thought it would give up soon and go away. Yeah, it didn't.

For hours (in-game time), I went deeper, then came back up, went hard to starboard, then port, then some random knuckles, then going 1kt at 200m, then just cutting engines and running silent at 200m as well. But this DAMN CORVETTE always knew exactly where I was! EXACTLY!! He would run his circular pattern and then pass right over me, every single time. This whole time, I did not hear him ping me, he did not slow down to listen with his hydrophones. He just somehow knew exactly where I was. I tried all the techniques I could think of, and not any of them affected him at all.

I eventually loaded the save again, but the same thing happened. I even tried to surface at night to duke it out but he kinda killed me. So I reloaded a previous save and just decided to do the patrol from there. Now, this bug may have happened because I saved the game while underwater, but it is not the definite cause, and then, I experienced DD Super Sensors again...

On my way back from the Atlantic, going above GB and towards Scapa Flow, my watch spotted an Armed Trawler. I had already blown one to hell in a very funny gunfight, but I decided to play it safe this time and went to periscope depth. It was in the middle of the night, calm seas, so I didn't think he would detect me. Yeah, he did.

He immediately started doing circles, like the corvette, only this time, he didn't pass over me, he just did circles around me. I seriously watched the navmap for a while in 32x TC, and his hydrophone contact line looked like a sweeping radar line, moving with me and keeping me in the center. He also kept firing starshells everywhere, which got annoying. Anyway, he also never pinged me, never stopped to listen, never....detected me in a normal manner. He just always knew where I was. Seriously, I just kept going for a while in TC until morning, and he was constantly orbiting me. Never stopped, never quit, never been so frustrated...

Again, I don't really know if this is a bug, but it kinda looks like one, since it's 1939, (meaning DD's aren't the brightest yet, as I saw in other encounters on this patrol), and they were not using any normal means to detect me. If anyone knows about this or has experienced this, advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. These DD's are kinda driving me up an effing wall.

Note: I have read the "GWX uber AI demystified" post, and while it is an excellent post, I don't think it explains this problem. I have seen destroyers actively working together like it says they do, or pinging me or listening for me by themselves, but this is totally different. Thanks again for any help.

[cardician]

I know its probably an obvious suggestion...but how about updating to GWX 1.03? Seriously, when a patch for a game is released...why would you not update? Obviously its released to fix bugs and balancing issues. So it just seem rather silly to complain about a bug without at least trying the latest patch to see if its resolved. Or maybe I'm insane.

[Brag]

How fast were you going?
Hard turns make noise. I never use more than 10 degrees rudder when hunted. Keep speed down. to one knot.

The impression I get is that you were trashing about making the escort's job easy. Read the convoy attack article on my webbie

[Mooncatt]

yup making hard turns does make a lot of noise, no more than 10 degrees is ok as the above dude said. but yeah you do need to update the game too.
as soon as dc are dropped on me and im at 200m i go flank ahead for a few seconds then back to 1knt and also make a 5-10 degree turn. that usually works for me.

[joea]

Why does everyone want to shoot dumb targets or assume you can get away with any move?

[Mooncatt]

(shrugs shoulders) its a steep learning curve is gwx imho

[Brag]

Originally Posted by Mooncatt

(shrugs shoulders) its a steep learning curve is gwx imho

Yuppers!
There's a natural tendency to assign supernatural powers to the escorts when one is not aware of one's own deficiencies. It took me forever to slow down from three to one knot.

[Mooncatt]

lol me too

[Gezoes]

Four hours, that's nothing.

I was chased back to Tunis by a DD. It blew off his own depthcharges but wouldn't let go. We duked it out in a surface slugfest at night. Cost me one officer and three crewmen.

Sank the ****er though

I was already so close to Tunis, they should have seen muzzle flashes

[The Renegade]

Thanks to everyone for the responses.

I know I really should update GWX before I start complaining about bugs, and seriously, I have the 1.03 update already downloaded and waiting to be installed. Thing is, I started a patrol with GWX a while ago and never finished it, so when I decided to start playing SH3 again, I figured that I would just finish the patrol and then install the patch, seeing as you have to be in port to safely install it and I didn't want to restart the career. It had been a pretty good patrol so far. So anyway, I thought one patrol with GWX 1.0 wouldn't hurt, especially because I hadn't heard any reports about major bugs in the first version.

As for hard turns making noise, I didn't really know that. Unless there was a misunderstanding. Sure, I know the knuckle commands make lots of noise, but I was either going at Ahead Slow or 1 kt and just ordering hard to port/starboard without increasing speed. This seems to me that it would not make any more noise than just going straight at 1 kt or slightly turning. If it does, I didn't know that, but I would like to know why. At any rate, I will try using only up to 10 degrees on the rudder to see if that makes any difference.

To everyone that said GWX is harder and has a steep learning curve: Yes, I know this, and I have no problem with it. On this first patrol, I immediately noticed how much more aggressive and smarter the escorts were, even compared to GW 1.1. Destroyers and corvettes waste no time in DC'ing you whenever they catch a glimpse of you or they see the trail of a torpedo, and I love it. That is not what I am complaining about. I don't want to shoot braindead merchants or have stupid DD's, just like how I'd rather play an FPS with good AI (i.e. COD2, IMO) than one with a bunch of Helen Kellers with guns (insert bad FPS here, I can't think of one ). So just to make things clear, I really like the vastly improved AI of ALL the ships in the game, its just that these recent encounters have not appeared to feature escorts with great AI, but with X-Ray vision.

Again, the two things that had me thinking this was a bug were:

1. It's 1939, beginning of the war, are escorts really masters of ASW yet?
2. During both encounters, the escorts were using no means, that I could see, to detect me.

At one point, I was at 200m at 1-2 kts, and then I eventually just cut the engines. How is an escort supposed to detect a silent submarine at 200m without ASDIC/pinging or stopping to listen with his hydrophone? Both times, the escorts did neither. It was just a constant straight-charge-then-circle-back pattern and passing over my exact position, or a nonstop orbit around Planet U-boat . They never stopped to listen, never tried pinging, nothing. And, having looked at that "GWX uber AI demystified" post again, I saw that it states that early war sonar kinda sucked and was very limited, yet again posing the question as to how the escorts always kept track of me with crappy equipment. I don't remember if it said that this was exactly modeled in the game, but I am pretty sure that escorts do get harder to evade as the war progresses, so it must have been to some degree.

I still don't know what to think of this "bug," but I will update GWX as soon as I can and see if it helps. I honestly don't think I was really doing a bad job at evasion, having read some things online and looking at other posts to help my "technique." I generally go to Ahead Flank as the DD approaches and do some sort of a turn to dodge the DC's, and then go back to Ahead Slow or 1 kt and keep silent. I also try to keep my bow or stern pointed at one, if not both of the escorts to keep a low profile when they decide to try to ping me.

Hope this clears things up and explains the "bug" a bit more. By the way, I do love GWX and I continue to be amazed at what SH3 has become with such a great add-on. Thanks, from yet another grateful kaleun, to all those who were involved in GWX.

Edit: Sorry Gezoes, didn't see your post. That is a pretty cool story, and having tried to fight DD's myself, that must have the sweetest g-damn victory evar!! I actually was trying to escape my hunter for like 8 hours or more, but what really sucked is that he definitely blew me to hell when I tried to fight it out .

[Kpt. Lehmann]

From the Kpt.

What you describe is not a bug and will remain integral to GWX. In more detail:

I set the hydrophones to be extremely sensitive... once an enemy hears you he will charge to your last known location and depth charge it in all likelyhood. Not only that... but he will call his friends too. When he gets closer... Sonar/Asdic kicks in and he tightens his search pattern if he gets a return.

Now that being said... Even if the DD LOSES CONTACT with you... he will still hunt for you and depth charge the vicinity for a very long time indeed... and if a new contact is made with you... that "hunt-time" clock starts all over again.

Furthermore, DD's communicate and operate in a coopreative fashion. One may maintain you as a contact and basically direct the other to DC you.

What you are describing as a bug... is an intended and intentionally modded feature.

Footnote: If a surface ship is travelling 15 knots or less, he is able to use his hydrophone... though they will slow down to cut down on their own noise factor.

Footnote #2: You can escape the DD's.

[Seminole]

Yesterday in GWX1.03, off the SE Brit coast, I nailed two merchants from a costal convoy with my IIA while in only 22m of saltwater.(Total depth...not 22m under keel.)

I had three escort DDs...... work me over for a couple of hours and they never even scratched the paint on my boat. When they did come close it seemed more of an accident than a real intent.

Like the man said ....try to patch up to 1.03 ...if there is a "godlike" DD...bug or not...I haven't encountered one yet. And I do tend to play the early war Baltic Sea a lot.

[The Renegade]

Well, now the man himself has set things right. Thanks much Kpt. Lehman for replying and explaining my "bug."

It's a mix a good news and bad, good to know that it's not a bug, bad because those escorts are insane. I guess I'll just have to be insane with them and ramp up my evasion skills.

I didn't know that escorts could use hydrophones effectively while going that fast, so that's good to know. Thanks for all the other info about escort behavior as well. It's nice to know a little bit more about the enemy. Having just seen Predator for the first time last night, I think I can relate to Ahnold....

I will now go back and try to shake the bastards again. Thanks to everyone for the replies, and if anyone has any more evasion tactics they usually use or know of, it would be great to hear them. Thanks again to you Kpt. and everyone else who made GWX.