[REL] Realistic Sensors (obsolete)

New thread here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108688

**Re-Released**

More Realistic Sensors v1.0 for SH4 v1.1 (based on GWX's excellent sensor settings)

Mod created by nvdrifter
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This mod makes AI sensors and detections in SH4 much more realistic (in my opinion). It also makes enemy AI much more dangerous because you can be detected much more easily now than in vanilla SH4. I based most of the settings in this mod on the latest version of GWX's sensor settings. I give most of the credit for this mod to the excellent GWX developement team who extensively playetested these settings. To get a more detailed description of what this mod affects, please see the latest GWX manual.

To install, place each file into the correct corresponding folder. Always be sure to back up your files before overwriting.

I make no claims that this mod is superior or the best. But in my opinion, vanilla SH4 AI sensors just aren't sensitive enough, and the result is enemy escorts are too easy to evade. They are practically blind. Hopefully this mod will correct some of these shortcomings.

Download here: http://hosted.filefront.com/aragorn155/

[CCIP]

Awesome!

Did you use Mini Tweaker or something else?

Great work - though I'm highly tempted to transfer NYGM sensors this way now, too :p

Originally Posted by CCIP

Awesome!

Did you use Mini Tweaker or something else?

Great work - though I'm highly tempted to transfer NYGM sensors this way now, too :p

Yeah, I used Mini Tweaker. But I had to make new tweak files because the old ones wouldn't work. Right now I am making a deadlier enemy aircraft mod. Should be finished soon.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Awesome!

Did you use Mini Tweaker or something else?

Great work - though I'm highly tempted to transfer NYGM sensors this way now, too :p

I don't have the files in front of me, but umm two points id like to mention here guys:


1.) If theres a sim.cfg with similar settigns as in SH3, you probably woudlnt have to touch the AI_sensors.dat (if file of same name exists) at all. The AI_sensors.dat deals primarly with geometry. The guts, meat and potato's of how uber or dumb the AI is, is in the sim.cfg.



2.)As for making the NYGM version to work... Essshhh.. youd have to have EXACT same AI_sensor nodes available with the exact same geometry, and have them asssigned to ships in the exact same way for that to work. I highly doubt the NYGM AI_sensor.dat would work. but again, i dont have the files infront of me.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I don't have the files in front of me, but umm two points id like to mention here guys:


1.) If theres a sim.cfg with similar settigns as in SH3, you probably woudlnt have to touch the AI_sensors.dat (if file of same name exists) at all. The AI_sensors.dat deals primarly with geometry. The guts, meat and potato's of how uber or dumb the AI is, is in the sim.cfg.



2.)As for making the NYGM version to work... Essshhh.. youd have to have EXACT same AI_sensor nodes available with the exact same geometry, and have them asssigned to ships in the exact same way for that to work. I highly doubt the NYGM AI_sensor.dat would work. but again, i dont have the files infront of me.

Yeah, I understand this. That is why I changed both files you mentioned to be close to GWX's settings. I did some playtesting and the AI seems much 'smarter' now and more challenging with it's sensors.

[CCIP]

I am aware of the new visual nodes on NYGM. Frankly though, I haven't been particularly bothered by the visual settings in SHIV as much as the underwater detection.

Well, I think GWXs solution is fine too! Perhaps even better for Japanese AI (a bit less tenacious in sticking to a contact, which they do in NYGM) :hmm:

[StandingCow]

Quick question.. what year were you playing when you decided that the sensors weren't good enough for AI?

I remember reading in the main forum that ASW was terrible for the japs early on.

[Crosseye76]

Originally Posted by nvdrifter

This mod makes AI sensors and detections in SH4 much more realistic.

Compared to what? Japanese Escorts did not have anything like the electronic fit of a British or American Escort or DE. The Millimeter wave radar common to Late war allied ships had no comparison in the IJN. And that's even if the IJN ship had radar. Most of the sets seem to have gone to Fleet ships, not poor sub hunter escorts. The Sonar equipment seems about the same. the IJN started the war with good (for the time) sets, but did not seem to be able to really improve on it much as the war went on. So, other than visual, a Mid or late war IJN escort will not have anything like the sensor performance of a British or American escort.

It's a different war, a different enemy, with different equipment. I'm a bit worried that using the GWX values will try and make SH4 more like "Wolves of the Atlantic" than "Wolves of the Pacific".

Originally Posted by Crosseye76

Compared to what? Japanese Escorts did not have anything like the electronic fit of a British or American Escort or DE. The Millimeter wave radar common to Late war allied ships had no comparison in the IJN. And that's even if the IJN ship had radar. Most of the sets seem to have gone to Fleet ships, not poor sub hunter escorts. The Sonar equipment seems about the same. the IJN started the war with good (for the time) sets, but did not seem to be able to really improve on it much as the war went on. So, other than visual, a Mid or late war IJN escort will not have anything like the sensor performance of a British or American escort.

It's a different war, a different enemy, with different equipment. I'm a bit worried that using the GWX values will try and make SH4 more like "Wolves of the Atlantic" than "Wolves of the Pacific".

Ok, constructive opinions about mods are alright. But everyone here needs to remember 2 things. First, we modders are volunteering our time to try and improve SH4. Second, no one is forcing you to install or use any mod. Please keep this in mind before criticizing.

Now, if some players feel that the enemy sensors are too good, thne maybe a second version can be released later. But who is to say that GWX sensors were realistic enough for German escorts compared to real life? There is no way to prove this. Again, no one is forcing you to use any mod. If anyone here complaining thinks they can do a better job at modding, then be my guest.

I will stop modding altogether if unappreciative people start bashing my mods.

[Crosseye76]

Nvdrifter, I did not intend in any way to bash your efforts, or the efforts of any of the modders whos work we all enjoy.


It was more to voice my concern and perhaps, to suggest that the GWX sensor values might not be more realistic than the sensor values already in the game, that's all.

I want SH3 and SH4 to be the best, most realistic Subsims out there, bar none. and if changes are needed, than I'm all for them. I'm just wanting to clarify if changes are needed in this area.

And again, my sincere apology if you feel I've over stepped my bounds.

[StandingCow]

Yea, I would never want to bash a modders work, we really appreciate it, my concern was that stated in the above post. Is it really more realistic? The japs did not have nearly the ASW ability as the allies.

Originally Posted by Crosseye76

Nvdrifter, I did not intend in any way to bash your efforts, or the efforts of any of the modders whos work we all enjoy.


It was more to voice my concern and perhaps, to suggest that the GWX sensor values might not be more realistic than the sensor values already in the game, that's all.

I want SH3 and SH4 to be the best, most realistic Subsims out there, bar none. and if changes are needed, than I'm all for them. I'm just wanting to clarify if changes are needed in this area.

And again, my sincere apology if you feel I've over stepped my bounds.

No problem. Maybe I just misunderstood. I do understand your concerns. If players feel that the Japanese AI is too good in this mod, then maybe I can release another version later. I personally felt that the stock AI are pathetically easy in any year. I have read a great book about the US submarine war against Japan called Silent Victory, and according to the very knowledgable author, Japanese escorts hunting US subs were deadly as early as the beginning of 1942. That's something to consider. :hmm:

[sergbuto]

I do not think that people are bashing the mod. What they react to is the claim that sensors are now more REALISTIC that in vanilla. If the mod was called something like "tougher escorts", it would not get the remarks above.

In my opinion the AI sensors just aren't effective enough in vanilla SH4. It's just way, way too easy to lose escorts in any year. But of course that's just my opinion.

I have decided to remove this mod because it is already causing some controversy and criticism due to the title and other things. And I don't want to deal with any of that right now. I am too focused on trying to fix other problems in SH4.

[sergbuto]

Why not just rename or add something to the title of the mod to make it clearer for people. I guess many players would want deadlier escorts.