Dealing With GWX Aircraft

GoldenRivet · 03-08-07, 10:27 PM

Been reading these forums for some time now. finally decided i would join up and create my first post.

If your playing the GWX mod one thing you will notice particularly late in the war is that air patrols are not only frequent, and annoying, but they are lethal.

it always seems that no sooner can you get your batteries charged or nearly so and there is an aircraft coming down on you or your radio man is detecting radar!

One thing i did to counter the threat of aircraft - and this may be old news - but i equipped the boat with the Flack Boat watch tower with 2 four barrels and the twin AA gun. Instruct the gun crews to hold their fire. Watch the inbound airplane approach you. The second he starts his dive to drop bombs on you, tell your gun crews to fire at will. The result is almost always lethal for the incoming aircraft. Usually they plane will erupt into flames, pass over your boat, and crash into the sea before having the chance to drop any bombs.

The only time i dont try this little tactic is when i am being engaged by multiple aircraft, or of course when the seas are too rough to permit manning the AA guns.

d@rk51d3 · 03-08-07, 10:40 PM

The only place that aircraft really bother me is the bay of biscay. No damage sustained - yet, but almost out of ammo by the time you reach the other side.

Brag · 03-08-07, 11:03 PM

Welcome aboard Kaleun GoldenRivet. Interesting tactic, thanks for sharing

Letum · 03-08-07, 11:33 PM

I never fight it out with aircraft. It's almost always safer to crash dive.

Im in May 1942 on my GWX 1.1 patrol. I saw a pair of hurricanes back in '39, but I have not seen any other enemy aircraft.
When the air gets busy I will run on the surface only at night......until the enemy can see me on radar before I can see them at night!

Dantenoc · 03-09-07, 01:23 AM

With GWX I've been regularly experiencing events where my watch crew get's totaly surprised by aircraft, even in early war days. Sometimes, the only warning I'll get of an airplane is the bomb going off at the side of my boat... or, if I'm very attentive I can sometimes hear the plane's engines just before it starts it's attack run, but the watch crew will say and do nothing. The green bar on the bridge "section" is completely filled, of course, so I would guess that giving out more watch crew qualifications would do nothing to solve the issue. Has anyone else experienced this?

I play at 128xTC or sometimes, rarely, at 256xTC, and I've tweaked my game via SH3 commander so that time compression drops down to 1xTC as soon as a ship or plane is sighted, but the time compression just doesn't drop down since the crew don't see anything.

As a side note, while hunting for lone merchants, I've had the game drop down the time compression to the "being hunted" level, before my crew even reports any sightings of the enemy. So even the merchants are getting the jump on me!Again, this is in 39/40, with the green bar maxed out for the bridge.

GoldenRivet · 03-09-07, 02:21 AM

a few times the total surprise by aircraft has happened to me. but i would say only something like 2 out of 10 times if that!

most of the time the watch crew spots the planes in time for me to at least get to 30 meters depth. I like to run on the surface with just the watch tower above the waves - this reduces the dive time.

I dont like to duke it out with aircraft unless repairs or something of that nature require me to be surfaced. I find that the tactic of waiting until the aircraft starts its dive down on you - hold your fire till then - almost 100% of the time results in a downed aircraft. I played a short late war campaign recently where "testing" this method resulted in 46 enemy planes downed... the price of course over the course of 13 patrols was 5 crewmen

Right now Im playing with GWX and SH3 commander too, March 1940, in base before my third patrol with 84 % realism. (Sorry i like the outside views too much hehe)

Just ran across the HMS Rodney in the middle of a convoy a while ago, closed to within 700 meters undetected- shot a spread of 4 at her, brilliant explosion followed, 36,000 tons to the bottom. managed to get a stern shot off at a large tanker. Both ships went down.

shadowed the convoy for another day, and went in for another attack the next night, got an ammunition ship, and a small tanker.

went deep and got the heck out of dodge after that.

g8rk0k · 03-09-07, 03:09 AM

I understand where you are coming from. Aircraft in SH3 makes the game hell. I usually just crash dive but without radar in rough water and the crappy detector they give you prior to naxos makes it so sometimes suderlands pop in very close to you and it seems more prudent to send up a curtain of bullets to throw them off enough so they miss because there isn't time enough to get your boat down before they will let go their bombs. Sometimes they won't even drop on the first pass, if you're lucky. After they pass I hit "C" immediately and race for 70 meters.

There are times when it seems like the same group of planes is chasing me around the map so I will intentionally bait them in, going slow at first and as they approach, full flank and 10 degress rudder toward them to maintain speed. Then I let my men blow them out of the sky. It's always risky to fight the aircraft but I have noticed that if you turn around and give them a bloody nose it seems that you won't get jumped again for awhile.

AndyW · 03-09-07, 04:23 AM

I'm playing in 1944 and the enemy a/c are real buggers. In average I am attacked two dozen times during a patrol, even though I'm driving submerged during daytimes.

My tactics are as following (and I'm still learning):

1.) I buy all the neat anti-radar warning devices (FuMB Metox, Naxos etc.) I can get. Don't be stingy, they are your life insurance.

2.) I submerge from two hours prior sunrise until two hours after sunset. That leaves you just with the RDF-equipped night patrol a/c

3.) I drive decks awash (7m). This is reducing my crash dive time dramatically from around 45 seconds until I pass the 25m-depth to only 25 seconds (I have a Type VIIC).

4.) During surface runs, I order the AAA-crew onto deck, ready to fire

5.) If I have an air contact, there is only one decision: Is the enemy a/c

a) closer than 2500 m (case a) or
b) more far away (case b)?

case a): I turn my boat into the general direction of the approaching a/c, flank speed and order the AA to fire. By this my silhouette is small, the aft of my boat with the Flak is showing to the attacking a/c and my turn ruins the attacker's strafing approach (well, maybe

). After the enemy a/c had passed my boat, I crash dive.

case b): crash dive.

I found it mandatory to dive. Even if you win the shoot-out 9 out of 10 times, the 10th a/c will get you and cause damage on you. Given the very high number of attacks, you end up with damage and low hull condition even before you have reached your assigned patrol grid.

Cheers,
AndyW

HunterICX · 03-09-07, 04:37 AM

@AndyW
please change the color of your Text, because I cannot see it.

OT:

When I tested the GWX Beta, I was testing the indian area with the IXD2
I decided to pay australia a visit.

before I went I noticed I had the Radar detector and the Guadalupe AA guns

When I got radar reports of incoming planes I decide to point my Stern into the dirrection of the Aircrafts and when Flank speed.
when I got visual of the Aircraft and clearly heard them I let my AA Crew fire on Medium range...4 planes down, 1 crashed about 10 meters beside me.

Radar detector is really a Must in later war. because your crew mostly spots the plane too late.

Jimbuna · 03-09-07, 04:38 AM

Welcome aboard kaleun Golden Rivet

In my experience I would always prefer to dive

But if that is not an option I like my flak gunners to commence firing asap....waiting for the aircraft to start diving on his bombing run usually implies he is lined up on his target and stacks the odds in his favour :hmm:

OuNiS · 03-09-07, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum

I never fight it out with aircraft. It's almost always safer to crash dive.

Ok. But if the airplane is to close your boat mostly slow down your speed while diving and it's a better chance to airplane to hit your boat by a bomb. In this case I ordered engines to ahead flank and try to avoid bombs. After the airplane fly over my boat I mae crash diving.
When aircraft is far away from me I make crash dive and when I am _fully_ submarge I always make 'crazy ivan' because the airplane may plot my hipotetical course and hit my boat even than I'm submarge.

GoldenRivet · 03-09-07, 01:20 PM

another good anti aircraft tactic is to totally erase your plotted course waypoints, go to flank speed and create new waypoints just ahead of your sub that will cause your sub to steer a tight "zig zag".

I have noticed that this throws the planes off when they are trying to drop their eggs on you.

Of course these are only tactics i use when crash diving is out of the question.

Mooncatt · 03-09-07, 02:03 PM

i dont even attempt to fight them just dive 3knts all day till it gets dark, everytime i surface with 15mins they come back again. of course this only happens to me as i go north of scotland ive never had any trouble with them anywhere else tbh

3Jane · 03-09-07, 08:51 PM

Having just switched from a VIIB to a IXB out of Willhelshaven. Between Lerwick and Stornaway I was lucky to be attacked only by Swordfish and Ansons. Managed to down nine, eight Swordfish one Anson. After that the Hurricanes started coming in. After loosing three crew I decided the party was over and resorted to diving as soon as aircraft are sighted. In the VIIB, I would crash dive to avoid aircraft without a second thought. I just wanted to try out the new flak setup on the IXB. I must say, the IXB crash dives like a hydrogen filled pig. :rotfl:

edit: Another word on this. Am now tracking a convoy having avoided two hunting escorts after being spotted. Presumably due to the cumulative damage from all the air attacks, my maximum depth isnow about 110 Mtrs before the crew start reporting damage and some slow flooding. Shooting at the aircraft was fun, but it has now limited my options. In future, crash diving will be the better option. So far, 22 air attacks from Willhelshaven to DJ15 (July 1940).

Brag · 03-09-07, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Jane

Having just switched from a VIIB to a IXB out of Willhelshaven. Between Lerwick and Stornaway I was lucky to be attacked only by Swordfish and Ansons. Managed to down nine, eight Swordfish one Anson. After that the Hurricanes started coming in. After loosing three crew I decided the party was over and resorted to diving as soon as aircraft are sighted. In the VIIB, I would crash dive to avoid aircraft without a second thought. I just wanted to try out the new flak setup on the IXB. I must say, the IXB crash dives like a hydrogen filled pig. :rotfl:

Love your diving description.
The IX wallows like a pregnant cow too lazy to have a nap.

03-08-07, 10:27 PM	#1
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Dealing With GWX Aircraft Been reading these forums for some time now. finally decided i would join up and create my first post. If your playing the GWX mod one thing you will notice particularly late in the war is that air patrols are not only frequent, and annoying, but they are lethal. it always seems that no sooner can you get your batteries charged or nearly so and there is an aircraft coming down on you or your radio man is detecting radar! One thing i did to counter the threat of aircraft - and this may be old news - but i equipped the boat with the Flack Boat watch tower with 2 four barrels and the twin AA gun. Instruct the gun crews to hold their fire. Watch the inbound airplane approach you. The second he starts his dive to drop bombs on you, tell your gun crews to fire at will. The result is almost always lethal for the incoming aircraft. Usually they plane will erupt into flames, pass over your boat, and crash into the sea before having the chance to drop any bombs. The only time i dont try this little tactic is when i am being engaged by multiple aircraft, or of course when the seas are too rough to permit manning the AA guns.

03-08-07, 11:03 PM	#3
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard Kaleun GoldenRivet. Interesting tactic, thanks for sharing __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

03-08-07, 11:33 PM	#4
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I never fight it out with aircraft. It's almost always safer to crash dive. Im in May 1942 on my GWX 1.1 patrol. I saw a pair of hurricanes back in '39, but I have not seen any other enemy aircraft. When the air gets busy I will run on the surface only at night......until the enemy can see me on radar before I can see them at night! __________________

03-09-07, 01:23 AM	#5
Dantenoc Captain Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ensenada, B.C., Mexico Posts: 504 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	With GWX I've been regularly experiencing events where my watch crew get's totaly surprised by aircraft, even in early war days. Sometimes, the only warning I'll get of an airplane is the bomb going off at the side of my boat... or, if I'm very attentive I can sometimes hear the plane's engines just before it starts it's attack run, but the watch crew will say and do nothing. The green bar on the bridge "section" is completely filled, of course, so I would guess that giving out more watch crew qualifications would do nothing to solve the issue. Has anyone else experienced this? I play at 128xTC or sometimes, rarely, at 256xTC, and I've tweaked my game via SH3 commander so that time compression drops down to 1xTC as soon as a ship or plane is sighted, but the time compression just doesn't drop down since the crew don't see anything. As a side note, while hunting for lone merchants, I've had the game drop down the time compression to the "being hunted" level, before my crew even reports any sightings of the enemy. So even the merchants are getting the jump on me!Again, this is in 39/40, with the green bar maxed out for the bridge. __________________ Going to U-boot school : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88922 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=90234 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=97682

03-09-07, 04:23 AM	#8
AndyW Electrician's Mate Join Date: May 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 133 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	I'm playing in 1944 and the enemy a/c are real buggers. In average I am attacked two dozen times during a patrol, even though I'm driving submerged during daytimes. My tactics are as following (and I'm still learning): 1.) I buy all the neat anti-radar warning devices (FuMB Metox, Naxos etc.) I can get. Don't be stingy, they are your life insurance. 2.) I submerge from two hours prior sunrise until two hours after sunset. That leaves you just with the RDF-equipped night patrol a/c 3.) I drive decks awash (7m). This is reducing my crash dive time dramatically from around 45 seconds until I pass the 25m-depth to only 25 seconds (I have a Type VIIC). 4.) During surface runs, I order the AAA-crew onto deck, ready to fire 5.) If I have an air contact, there is only one decision: Is the enemy a/c a) closer than 2500 m (case a) or b) more far away (case b)? case a): I turn my boat into the general direction of the approaching a/c, flank speed and order the AA to fire. By this my silhouette is small, the aft of my boat with the Flak is showing to the attacking a/c and my turn ruins the attacker's strafing approach (well, maybe ). After the enemy a/c had passed my boat, I crash dive. case b): crash dive. I found it mandatory to dive. Even if you win the shoot-out 9 out of 10 times, the 10th a/c will get you and cause damage on you. Given the very high number of attacks, you end up with damage and low hull condition even before you have reached your assigned patrol grid. Cheers, AndyW __________________ currently U-200 (Type IXD2) Ltn.z.See Schonder, 2nd patrol (July 1943) [SH3 1.4b + GWX 2.1 @ 90% realism + U-Jagdtools + LRT + Seadbed Repair, DiD] TOTAL: 11 careers, 47 patrols, 1,033 days at sea, 633,585 tons sunk Last edited by AndyW; 03-09-07 at 07:14 AM.

03-08-07, 10:40 PM	#2
d@rk51d3 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 1,952 Downloads: 207 Uploads: 0	The only place that aircraft really bother me is the bay of biscay. No damage sustained - yet, but almost out of ammo by the time you reach the other side.

03-09-07, 02:21 AM	#6
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	a few times the total surprise by aircraft has happened to me. but i would say only something like 2 out of 10 times if that! most of the time the watch crew spots the planes in time for me to at least get to 30 meters depth. I like to run on the surface with just the watch tower above the waves - this reduces the dive time. I dont like to duke it out with aircraft unless repairs or something of that nature require me to be surfaced. I find that the tactic of waiting until the aircraft starts its dive down on you - hold your fire till then - almost 100% of the time results in a downed aircraft. I played a short late war campaign recently where "testing" this method resulted in 46 enemy planes downed... the price of course over the course of 13 patrols was 5 crewmen Right now Im playing with GWX and SH3 commander too, March 1940, in base before my third patrol with 84 % realism. (Sorry i like the outside views too much hehe) Just ran across the HMS Rodney in the middle of a convoy a while ago, closed to within 700 meters undetected- shot a spread of 4 at her, brilliant explosion followed, 36,000 tons to the bottom. managed to get a stern shot off at a large tanker. Both ships went down. shadowed the convoy for another day, and went in for another attack the next night, got an ammunition ship, and a small tanker. went deep and got the heck out of dodge after that.

03-09-07, 03:09 AM	#7
g8rk0k Watch Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 21 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	I understand where you are coming from. Aircraft in SH3 makes the game hell. I usually just crash dive but without radar in rough water and the crappy detector they give you prior to naxos makes it so sometimes suderlands pop in very close to you and it seems more prudent to send up a curtain of bullets to throw them off enough so they miss because there isn't time enough to get your boat down before they will let go their bombs. Sometimes they won't even drop on the first pass, if you're lucky. After they pass I hit "C" immediately and race for 70 meters. There are times when it seems like the same group of planes is chasing me around the map so I will intentionally bait them in, going slow at first and as they approach, full flank and 10 degress rudder toward them to maintain speed. Then I let my men blow them out of the sky. It's always risky to fight the aircraft but I have noticed that if you turn around and give them a bloody nose it seems that you won't get jumped again for awhile.

03-09-07, 04:37 AM	#9
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	@AndyW please change the color of your Text, because I cannot see it. OT: When I tested the GWX Beta, I was testing the indian area with the IXD2 I decided to pay australia a visit. before I went I noticed I had the Radar detector and the Guadalupe AA guns When I got radar reports of incoming planes I decide to point my Stern into the dirrection of the Aircrafts and when Flank speed. when I got visual of the Aircraft and clearly heard them I let my AA Crew fire on Medium range...4 planes down, 1 crashed about 10 meters beside me. Radar detector is really a Must in later war. because your crew mostly spots the plane too late. __________________

03-09-07, 04:38 AM	#10
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,584 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Welcome aboard kaleun Golden Rivet In my experience I would always prefer to dive But if that is not an option I like my flak gunners to commence firing asap....waiting for the aircraft to start diving on his bombing run usually implies he is lined up on his target and stacks the odds in his favour :hmm: __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-09-07, 01:20 PM	#12
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	another good anti aircraft tactic is to totally erase your plotted course waypoints, go to flank speed and create new waypoints just ahead of your sub that will cause your sub to steer a tight "zig zag". I have noticed that this throws the planes off when they are trying to drop their eggs on you. Of course these are only tactics i use when crash diving is out of the question.

03-09-07, 02:03 PM	#13
Mooncatt Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Keighley UK Posts: 938 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	i dont even attempt to fight them just dive 3knts all day till it gets dark, everytime i surface with 15mins they come back again. of course this only happens to me as i go north of scotland ive never had any trouble with them anywhere else tbh __________________

03-09-07, 08:51 PM	#14
3Jane Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: York. Northern England. Posts: 1,004 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Having just switched from a VIIB to a IXB out of Willhelshaven. Between Lerwick and Stornaway I was lucky to be attacked only by Swordfish and Ansons. Managed to down nine, eight Swordfish one Anson. After that the Hurricanes started coming in. After loosing three crew I decided the party was over and resorted to diving as soon as aircraft are sighted. In the VIIB, I would crash dive to avoid aircraft without a second thought. I just wanted to try out the new flak setup on the IXB. I must say, the IXB crash dives like a hydrogen filled pig. :rotfl: edit: Another word on this. Am now tracking a convoy having avoided two hunting escorts after being spotted. Presumably due to the cumulative damage from all the air attacks, my maximum depth isnow about 110 Mtrs before the crew start reporting damage and some slow flooding. Shooting at the aircraft was fun, but it has now limited my options. In future, crash diving will be the better option. So far, 22 air attacks from Willhelshaven to DJ15 (July 1940). __________________ Fate opposes me in vitality and morality, forced ever onward, burdened, always in shackles. So this very moment, without tarrying, pluck the quivering strings. Because fate punishes the one who plays, all lament with me. (http://hosted.filefront.com/KatherineRowan) Last edited by 3Jane; 03-14-07 at 05:33 AM.