Destroyers acting lick cars !!!!!

17thcpikeman · 01-31-07, 10:51 AM

Hi All,

I have been playing for about two months now and I am starting to get a little braver. I have just found my first convoy. When I attack it the destoyers come towards me and start to search for me. There are three of them and when I go to freeview they drive around like cars. not only fast forwards but stop straight away (no drift) and reverse like doing a three point turn in a car. Is this right???????? Oh and they have now killed me 6 times.

any help ?

Abd_von_Mumit · 01-31-07, 11:11 AM

To stop and then go back they use "all machines back" so they do not wait till they stop floating to start moving back. Thus you see them moving all the time... I think.

Tips are:
- never be spotted,
- if spotted, sumberge and be silent (silent running),
- after launching your torpedoes don't stay there, just dive as deep, as you can and evade.
Read some topics here about evading escorts, some very good tips there!

Morts · 01-31-07, 11:39 AM

when you attack a convoy you should do following

arrive at estimated course before they get there and possibly go towards then
when you spot the front escort dive to 50-200 meters and when the escort has passed speed up a little so you raise faster to periscope depth. when you're at periscope depth pick out the biggest targets and fire your torpedos. after you have fired you dive deep, dont wait for the torpedos to detonate just dive because the escorts will come and look for you
now when the escorts arent on the hydrophone anymore go to periscope depth and scan the horizon, if nothing is spotted surface and start reloading torpedos and try to out run the convoy and get in a frontal position again

i do it that way and i dont have any problems

Sailor Steve · 01-31-07, 11:40 AM

No, it's not right. It takes time for the orders to be understood and carried out, even with an engine telegraph. It takes time to drag 1500 tons of steel to a stop and get it going again in another direction. Granted, the power-to-weight ratio of a destroyer is immense compared to other ships, so it's not as bad as when merchants do it; but it's still a little too much.

17thcpikeman · 02-05-07, 03:19 AM

Thanks guys,

I managed to evade two escorts and sink one! I also managed to sink 4 merchant ships before sneaking at 2kts away after several hours. I also managed to sink two merchants on the way home to lorient.

Great advise and thanks again.

Brag · 02-05-07, 06:25 AM

Destroyers should not be acting like cars. Are you running at TCx1? You got some good advice by the othe other Kaleuns responding. you may want to visit my site. good hunting!

MRV · 02-05-07, 08:32 AM

I think these are limitations in game physics. Normally a ship with 2 propellers should also be able to make a sharp turn by reversing one propeller and running the other normally while giving full rudder. Sharp turning DDs should also experience a drift to the side, like in DW.

AVGWarhawk · 02-05-07, 08:41 AM

I believe there was discussion on this a while back. I believe the final outcome was that it could not be corrected. If I remember correctly.

Mush Martin · 02-05-07, 09:02 AM

I think what must have been seen was
an escort group processing the contact
at a higher time compression.

I did this deliberately quite a few times
when working up River Class Frigate type 2 mod
so as I could observe the attack patterns and
the performance of the new ship.

it looked exactly as described but what was
happening was this.

as the three (or four) escorts approach and process
the contact they make passes over the datum point
and loop back around to reacquire. as three or four
ships do this from varying approach angles they arrive
in varying times to join the pattern. this results in the
escorts occasionally getting in each others way, or
once in a while damaging each other as they cross
an active depth charge pattern of another escort.
when they get in each others way, the of course
naturally take evasive maneuvers that are compliant
with staying on track of the datum point. ie. all back full

the AI is quite good at group tactics, and the fact that
individual ships are able to take evasive maneuvers when
they make a mistake, adds to the realism almost as much
as the fact that they like us and the real sailors of history
make mistakes.

They are only Human after all......LOL

I believe the impression of car like behaviour comes from
watching these events at two time time compression or
better.

It is a Beautiful thing to watch a good escort group process
a contact they use actual group tactics, including
sprint and drifts and creeping attacks where by one ship
will station aft of the sub and hold him while the others
work him over, after enough runs they will change up and
another will hold the sub while the original listener joins
the fun.

discovering this was enthralling. and at 1 x TC it is absolutely
beautiful to watch.

MM

01-31-07, 10:51 AM	#1
17thcpikeman Seaman Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: UK Posts: 42 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Destroyers acting lick cars !!!!! Hi All, I have been playing for about two months now and I am starting to get a little braver. I have just found my first convoy. When I attack it the destoyers come towards me and start to search for me. There are three of them and when I go to freeview they drive around like cars. not only fast forwards but stop straight away (no drift) and reverse like doing a three point turn in a car. Is this right???????? Oh and they have now killed me 6 times. any help ?

01-31-07, 11:11 AM	#2
Abd_von_Mumit The Old Man Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Warszawa, Polska Posts: 1,453 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 4	To stop and then go back they use "all machines back" so they do not wait till they stop floating to start moving back. Thus you see them moving all the time... I think. Tips are: - never be spotted, - if spotted, sumberge and be silent (silent running), - after launching your torpedoes don't stay there, just dive as deep, as you can and evade. Read some topics here about evading escorts, some very good tips there! __________________ Long, hard, wet and full of seamen. My precious. SH3+GWX+OLC — sunk x4, retired x2; SH5+TDW — still exploring My SH5 mods: EQuaTool - Elite Quality Map Tools, Patrol Routine Scripts, No Logo Intro Menu_Animation, Less Annoying Stopwatch Links: SH5 mods I use, FileFront, Manual plotting how-to

01-31-07, 11:40 AM	#4
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	No, it's not right. It takes time for the orders to be understood and carried out, even with an engine telegraph. It takes time to drag 1500 tons of steel to a stop and get it going again in another direction. Granted, the power-to-weight ratio of a destroyer is immense compared to other ships, so it's not as bad as when merchants do it; but it's still a little too much. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo Last edited by Sailor Steve; 02-05-07 at 12:27 PM.

02-05-07, 06:25 AM	#6
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Destroyers should not be acting like cars. Are you running at TCx1? You got some good advice by the othe other Kaleuns responding. you may want to visit my site. good hunting! __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

02-05-07, 08:41 AM	#8
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I believe there was discussion on this a while back. I believe the final outcome was that it could not be corrected. If I remember correctly. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

01-31-07, 11:39 AM	#3
Morts Admiral Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,395 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	when you attack a convoy you should do following arrive at estimated course before they get there and possibly go towards then when you spot the front escort dive to 50-200 meters and when the escort has passed speed up a little so you raise faster to periscope depth. when you're at periscope depth pick out the biggest targets and fire your torpedos. after you have fired you dive deep, dont wait for the torpedos to detonate just dive because the escorts will come and look for you now when the escorts arent on the hydrophone anymore go to periscope depth and scan the horizon, if nothing is spotted surface and start reloading torpedos and try to out run the convoy and get in a frontal position again i do it that way and i dont have any problems

02-05-07, 03:19 AM	#5
17thcpikeman Seaman Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: UK Posts: 42 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thanks guys, I managed to evade two escorts and sink one! I also managed to sink 4 merchant ships before sneaking at 2kts away after several hours. I also managed to sink two merchants on the way home to lorient. Great advise and thanks again.

02-05-07, 08:32 AM	#7
MRV Frogman Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 296 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	I think these are limitations in game physics. Normally a ship with 2 propellers should also be able to make a sharp turn by reversing one propeller and running the other normally while giving full rudder. Sharp turning DDs should also experience a drift to the side, like in DW.

02-05-07, 09:02 AM	#9
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	has it gone unoticed I think what must have been seen was an escort group processing the contact at a higher time compression. I did this deliberately quite a few times when working up River Class Frigate type 2 mod so as I could observe the attack patterns and the performance of the new ship. it looked exactly as described but what was happening was this. as the three (or four) escorts approach and process the contact they make passes over the datum point and loop back around to reacquire. as three or four ships do this from varying approach angles they arrive in varying times to join the pattern. this results in the escorts occasionally getting in each others way, or once in a while damaging each other as they cross an active depth charge pattern of another escort. when they get in each others way, the of course naturally take evasive maneuvers that are compliant with staying on track of the datum point. ie. all back full the AI is quite good at group tactics, and the fact that individual ships are able to take evasive maneuvers when they make a mistake, adds to the realism almost as much as the fact that they like us and the real sailors of history make mistakes. They are only Human after all......LOL I believe the impression of car like behaviour comes from watching these events at two time time compression or better. It is a Beautiful thing to watch a good escort group process a contact they use actual group tactics, including sprint and drifts and creeping attacks where by one ship will station aft of the sub and hold him while the others work him over, after enough runs they will change up and another will hold the sub while the original listener joins the fun. discovering this was enthralling. and at 1 x TC it is absolutely beautiful to watch. MM __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial