Are you a good sub captain

[LoBlo]

I read an interesting stat from a book excerpt, Submarine Technology for the 21st Century by Stan Zimmerman,

Originally Posted by Submarine Technology for the 21st Century by Stan Zimmerman

In World War II, 25% of the U.S. captains sank 75% of the ships. For the Germans, 2.5% of the captains sank 25% of the total," said the director of the British navy's submarine museum in Gosport. "The best captains came back." ...
... There are important lessons to be learned from these bare facts. Ace submarine skippers contribute far out of proportion to their numbers...

Are you a good sub captain or do you belong in port at a desk job? Be truthful now...I have to admit though I end up on the sea bottom most of the time... and its always those darn pesky helos that do it too!

[Sonoboy]

I think I'm a pretty good skipper, but I'm a bit reckless at times.

Let's just say that I do a lot of questionable actions. :hmm:

[Schultzy]

I'm awful. I don't know my ASW from my elbow. I'm trying but i'm still dying.

[jason taylor]

Never mind Manouevres, always go straight at 'em!" - Jack Aubrey.

A tactical theory based on the assumption that Englishmen can always fire twice as fast as Frenchmen.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by LoBlo

Are you a good sub captain or do you belong in port at a desk job? Be truthful now...I have to admit though I end up on the sea bottom most of the time... and its always those darn pesky helos that do it too!

I doubt that historical success rates for submarine captains are accurate predictors of future success rates. Submarines, their weaponry, and sonars were so crude then.

Helos are definitely my biggest problem as well.

[Blacklight]

Bernard is on my boat. 'nuff said.

[LoBlo]

Helos are definitely my biggest problem as well.

And usually in the form of escaping launch datums I would guess, if your problem is similar to mine. A slowing moving platform against fast moving hunters...

....I just finished modding a version of the sublaunched AIM-9X (from the TASM and SS27ASW) into the game. We'll see whether or not it increases my survival stats against those helos.

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

I doubt that historical success rates for submarine captains are accurate predictors of future success rates. Submarines, their weaponry, and sonars were so crude then.

Still, its a poignant reminder that not all captains are created equally... and the top notch of a lot can produce starkingly different results than their less competant peers.

[Kapitan]

I wouldnt say im a good skipper infact even though i voted yes im more at home commanding boomers than attacks, i excell in navigation, my worst points are acctualy tactical awareness and understanding what the other guy is doing or going to do.

There fore im more at home on boomers but all the time untill now i find myself commanding attack boats, even though im pretty good im in no way top of the class infact theres so many people above me.

[Dr.Sid]

What does it mean 'to excel in navigation' ? You need very little navigation skills in DW scenarios.

[SeaQueen]

And usually in the form of escaping launch datums I would guess, if your problem is similar to mine. A slowing moving platform against fast moving hunters...

Part of the problem is solved by moving faster as soon as you launch an ASCM. Once you shoot a cruise missile, they know EXACTLY where you are, so you need to really step out to get away from that point.

The helos actually don't search that smartly. They set up a box around the datum and the area doesn't expand so if you can basically just get a little bit outside of the box, you're home free. As long as you're not overflown, in which case he gets a MAD hit, you should be okay.

I also think it's odd how people use cruise missiles from insanely close distances. Why the heck do people shoot missiles that have a range of tens if not hundreds of miles, at single digit ranges? It makes no sense. Standing off and shooting decreases your vulnerability to counter attack from ASW aircraft by giving you plenty of time to clear the datum. In order to make the weapons effective you shoot lots of them in a salvo. Yeah, sometimes they get shot down... but not all the time and it usually only takes 1 or 2 to put a ship out of action. That's good enough for me.

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

Still, its a poignant reminder that not all captains are created equally... and the top notch of a lot can produce starkingly different results than their less competant peers.

I suspect a lot of it is luck too. So much of the outcome of submarine attacks has to do with one's ability to get into a good position to shoot. That's stuff you can't always control.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

What does it mean 'to excel in navigation' ? You need very little navigation skills in DW scenarios.

I wouldn't say that. It doesn't hurt to have some basic mo'board skills in DW. It's not really necessary, but I'd argue it lets you drive a little smarter, although it makes you a lot more busy.

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

I wouldnt say im a good skipper infact even though i voted yes im more at home commanding boomers than attacks, i excell in navigation, my worst points are acctualy tactical awareness and understanding what the other guy is doing or going to do.

There fore im more at home on boomers but all the time untill now i find myself commanding attack boats, even though im pretty good im in no way top of the class infact theres so many people above me.

What mod are you playing with which enables you to play with boomers...or are you talking SCU?

[Kapitan]

Yeah SCU for the boomers trying to make that playable ohio to work now id like to give that one a spin!

And navigational skill come in very handy in MP games knowing where you are and about the area your in gives you a big advantage where as the guy who dont know the area will probably ground or something.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

I also think it's odd how people use cruise missiles from insanely close distances. Why the heck do people shoot missiles that have a range of tens if not hundreds of miles, at single digit ranges?

To cause more fire damage from all the onboard jet fuel. Kidding.

It's because of the balance of effectiveness between SSMs and SAMs in DW. The only effective SSM carried by player controlled platforms in DW is the Klub. Any other missile type is going to be shot down unless it is fired in such large numbers that it can overwhelm the defenses of the target formation. Even a full salvo of 12 TASMs is unlikely to sink even one ship in a Russian SAG if fired at long range. From close range, you 've got a realistic chance at killing one and a shot at damaging or sinking a second, or maybe even a shot at a HVT.

It makes no sense. Standing off and shooting decreases your vulnerability to counter attack from ASW aircraft by giving you plenty of time to clear the datum. In order to make the weapons effective you shoot lots of them in a salvo. Yeah, sometimes they get shot down... but not all the time and it usually only takes 1 or 2 to put a ship out of action. That's good enough for me.

I disagree that a chance at sinking a screening vessel is worth depleting stores (or more accurately, worth sacrificing limited stores space that could be used for more effective weapons) or revealing the sub's location. Sure, you'll probably get away in time, but so will the enemy formation. As it stands now, an SSN can get within lethal ADCAP/UGST/65-76 range of the HVT in most formations--including well-screened formations. (Although, it should be noted here that Lw/Ami 4 decreases the effective range of these weapons significantly, and will likely have the effect of making well-defended HVT's much harder to reach. ) Firing at long range eliminates your best chance at an effective attack.

Now, if subsonic, seaskimming missiles performed in DW the way they did in the Falklands, Persian Gulf, and off the coast of Lebanon just a few months ago, then you'd be absolutely right. But as it stands now, the ability of escort vessels (or hell, even capital ships with only point defenses like LSD's and CVN's) to detect, identify, and engage SSMs in DW renders the subsonic SSM all but useless unless they are fired from inside the escorts' engagement envelope.

The Klub, of course, can be a whole different story. It actually loses effectiveness (against a player-controlled FFG) if it is fired close enough that it can be detected in the boost phase. Even so, when up against a Burke or Tico, firing from close range is often the only way for the missiles to get through (LW/Ami mod applied of course, since those vessels are ineffective as a counter-unit in stock DW).

[Kapitan]

If your close enough to fire missiles that wont get shot down (20nm) why dont you just fire two torps into a target? it takes longer to get there but gives you a chance to get out before a helo comes and sits on you.

depending on what sort of target im firing against i will use a veriaty of ranges and weapons, for a nimitz stand alone i would get close and fire two klubs and two torpedos, the missiles will be there to distract the enamy.

If im engauging a CVBG i will sit deep and let the forward escorts go over me then attack and slip away because i know that any helo or weapon fired into the middle of the CVBG will be easier to evade because theres so much noise the enamy cant get a true fix on me.
And if they do fire a torp all i have to do is go under a ship and blow then dive again most likely the enamys torp will hit thier own ship.