China Gets a Carrier...And Su-33's

Bort · 10-26-06, 07:52 PM

http://www.sinodefence.com/news/2006/news06-10-24.asp
Well, it looks like this all but makes it official, the Chinese are definately getting into the tailhook business. The ex-varyag is currently being refitted to become China's first aircraft carrier and now they're buying some very capable aircraft to operate from their new birdfarm.

Bort · 10-26-06, 07:54 PM

Sorry

Somehow I accidentally started two threads. Could the mods please delete this one, thanks.

ASWnut101 · 10-26-06, 08:25 PM

That huge rusting piece of floating steel is getting operational? Man, I sure wouldn't want to serve on it.....A hard landing SU-33 would problably put holes in the flight deck

....... It's like 30 years old, a pushover sent to china by USSR (Russia).

Bort · 10-26-06, 08:33 PM

With the overhaul it's going through I doubt it will be very rusty anymore. More important, I think the Chinese are viewing Varyag as a stepping stone to a bigger, better fleet of indigenously designed flattops.

sonar732 · 10-26-06, 08:41 PM

Varyag pierside.

Just NNW of the "default" location you'll see some blue buildings next to the water. There she is just north of them.

SUBMAN1 · 10-26-06, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonar732

Varyag pierside.

Just NNW of the "default" location you'll see some blue buildings next to the water. There she is just north of them.

Rust.

JSLTIGER · 10-26-06, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

That huge rusting piece of floating steel is getting operational? Man, I sure wouldn't want to serve on it.....A hard landing SU-33 would problably put holes in the flight deck

....... It's like 30 years old, a pushover sent to china by USSR (Russia).

Um...I hate to nitpick here, but even if he is 30 years old, he's (the Russians refer to their ships in the masculine) still a decent carrier, and he's bigger than many of the ones European nations have these days. Just because he's 30+ years old doesn't mean he's toothless.

Also consider that Kitty Hawk was launched in 1960, making her 46 years old, the Enterprise was launched in 1961, making her 45, and JFK was launched in 1967, making her 40. Nimitz was launched in 1974, making her 32 years old. I wouldn't consider any of these carriers a "pushover" in any sense of the world.

10-26-06, 09:04 PM

I'm thinking it takes a lot more than buying an aircraft carrier and 50 airplanes to make a viable threat. Ask the US Navy what it takes to put a carrier to sea as a viable fighting force.

bookworm_020 · 10-26-06, 09:32 PM

I wonder if the Ukrainians will demandcompansation for breech of contract, as they said it would be turned into a casino.

It will need some engines to be installes as the Ukrainians removed them before handing the ship over. I don't think a rubber band attached to the propeller count's as an engine!

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 10-27-06, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSLTIGER

Um...I hate to nitpick here, but even if he is 30 years old, he's (the Russians refer to their ships in the masculine) still a decent carrier, and he's bigger than many of the ones European nations have these days. Just because he's 30+ years old doesn't mean he's toothless.

Actually, it is not a very good carrier. Because of the lack of a catapult, only the good low-speed performance of the Su-33K and MiG-29K allows it to be a CTOL carrier (the plane makes up for the carrier). The French carriers carry a similar number of aircraft on >20000t less displacement. Yes, part of that is because of its requirement to be a cruiser as well, but it doesn't quite have enough defensive armament to "go it alone" with only its point defence suite, so it'd need escorts just as much as a full-time carrier, and the SS-N-19 missiles were apparently placed in a way that blocked off further extension of the hangar, limiting the space available.

Kapitan · 10-27-06, 03:48 AM

The varyag is acctualy not 30 years old nearing it but hasnt hit it yet, the kuznetsov class are 60,000 tonne air craft carrying cruisers, but the chinese let her get in a bit of a state she needs four engines and four propellors.

Her SS-N-19 missiles can be taken out and hanger increased but as a first carrier well its a good one seeing as america started off with less and built up to what it is.

The enterprise was built in 1961 so your trying to say any carrier older than 30 is not worth anything i think that puts about 6 american carriers out of use then.

tycho102 · 10-27-06, 01:55 PM

That. Is. C-R-A-Z-Y. It doesn't have a catapult? Woah, dude. That totally brings back memories of Doolittle's Raiders.

It's entirely possible they might "retrofit" some low power pistons on there. The system isn't all that complex, but it needs it's own boiler, and the water-brake and piston require some tight tolerances to keep the steam losses minimal.

About the only "country" China will invade is Taiwan, and they're not going to do it haphazardly. They know their economy will take a gigantic flying flop if they do it militarily.

SUBMAN1 · 10-27-06, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tycho102

That. Is. C-R-A-Z-Y. It doesn't have a catapult? Woah, dude. That totally brings back memories of Doolittle's Raiders.

It's entirely possible they might "retrofit" some low power pistons on there. The system isn't all that complex, but it needs it's own boiler, and the water-brake and piston require some tight tolerances to keep the steam losses minimal.

About the only "country" China will invade is Taiwan, and they're not going to do it haphazardly. They know their economy will take a gigantic flying flop if they do it militarily.

Problem is, CHina is not as interested in the US anymore and I get the sense they think they can take the economic hit if they do invade Taiwan. +, there military is designed not to stop but to slow the US down so that a Taiwan invasion would be successful and completed by the time the US got to its shores. Chinese leaders have put much thought into Taiwan, and the Taiwan invasion is only a matter of time.

-S

XabbaRus · 10-27-06, 03:43 PM

My bet is that the Chinese are building their own carrier somewhere, maybe in different locations in modular form. I know people make fun of Russian and Chinese equipment but theyare no fools. In fact I bet quality wise the chinese might be quite good. I have read that license built Su-27s made in China are of better quality than Russian ones.

Godalmighty83 · 10-27-06, 04:45 PM

i thought the Chinese were simply studying the overall design to build there own and retrofit that ship as a trainer. makes more sense then pushing it into a combat status after years of neglect and so much missing equipment.

but its going to be another decade until the UK gets its 65,000t CVf's leaving us with the invincible's that are getting close to 30 years old, but they are (hopefully) better maintained.

10-26-06, 07:52 PM	#1
Bort Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Studying in Atlanta Posts: 919 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	China Gets a Carrier...And Su-33's http://www.sinodefence.com/news/2006/news06-10-24.asp Well, it looks like this all but makes it official, the Chinese are definately getting into the tailhook business. The ex-varyag is currently being refitted to become China's first aircraft carrier and now they're buying some very capable aircraft to operate from their new birdfarm. __________________ GT Aerospace

10-26-06, 07:54 PM	#2
Bort Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Studying in Atlanta Posts: 919 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Sorry Somehow I accidentally started two threads. Could the mods please delete this one, thanks. __________________ GT Aerospace

10-26-06, 08:25 PM	#3
ASWnut101 Admiral Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: USA Posts: 2,021 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	That huge rusting piece of floating steel is getting operational? Man, I sure wouldn't want to serve on it.....A hard landing SU-33 would problably put holes in the flight deck ....... It's like 30 years old, a pushover sent to china by USSR (Russia). __________________

10-26-06, 08:33 PM	#4
Bort Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Studying in Atlanta Posts: 919 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	With the overhaul it's going through I doubt it will be very rusty anymore. More important, I think the Chinese are viewing Varyag as a stepping stone to a bigger, better fleet of indigenously designed flattops. __________________ GT Aerospace

10-26-06, 09:32 PM	#9
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I wonder if the Ukrainians will demandcompansation for breech of contract, as they said it would be turned into a casino. It will need some engines to be installes as the Ukrainians removed them before handing the ship over. I don't think a rubber band attached to the propeller count's as an engine! __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

10-26-06, 08:41 PM	#5
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Varyag pierside. Just NNW of the "default" location you'll see some blue buildings next to the water. There she is just north of them.

10-26-06, 09:04 PM	#8
waste gate Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I'm thinking it takes a lot more than buying an aircraft carrier and 50 airplanes to make a viable threat. Ask the US Navy what it takes to put a carrier to sea as a viable fighting force.

10-27-06, 03:48 AM	#11
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	The varyag is acctualy not 30 years old nearing it but hasnt hit it yet, the kuznetsov class are 60,000 tonne air craft carrying cruisers, but the chinese let her get in a bit of a state she needs four engines and four propellors. Her SS-N-19 missiles can be taken out and hanger increased but as a first carrier well its a good one seeing as america started off with less and built up to what it is. The enterprise was built in 1961 so your trying to say any carrier older than 30 is not worth anything i think that puts about 6 american carriers out of use then. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

10-27-06, 01:55 PM	#12
tycho102 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,100 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	That. Is. C-R-A-Z-Y. It doesn't have a catapult? Woah, dude. That totally brings back memories of Doolittle's Raiders. It's entirely possible they might "retrofit" some low power pistons on there. The system isn't all that complex, but it needs it's own boiler, and the water-brake and piston require some tight tolerances to keep the steam losses minimal. About the only "country" China will invade is Taiwan, and they're not going to do it haphazardly. They know their economy will take a gigantic flying flop if they do it militarily. __________________ My little Silent Hunter 4 repository

10-27-06, 03:43 PM	#14
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	My bet is that the Chinese are building their own carrier somewhere, maybe in different locations in modular form. I know people make fun of Russian and Chinese equipment but theyare no fools. In fact I bet quality wise the chinese might be quite good. I have read that license built Su-27s made in China are of better quality than Russian ones. __________________

10-27-06, 04:45 PM	#15
Godalmighty83 Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	i thought the Chinese were simply studying the overall design to build there own and retrofit that ship as a trainer. makes more sense then pushing it into a combat status after years of neglect and so much missing equipment. but its going to be another decade until the UK gets its 65,000t CVf's leaving us with the invincible's that are getting close to 30 years old, but they are (hopefully) better maintained. __________________ Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?