[REL] BillCar's Active Sonar Ping Mod Mk.II

[BillCar]

VERSIONS II, IIB, AND IIC RELEASED
Version IIC Released:
http://www.filefront.com/15787155/Bi...%20Mk%20IIC.7z

March 9, 2010:
Version IIC increases the squeak volume and leaves the impact volume as is. The squeak is audible while enemy is pinging, impact sound is generally too quiet to hear until the game increases the sound file volume to let you know that "Enemy is pinging us, sir!". The effect may depend on your personal speaker set-up, but as it is now, when I am playing, I find that I can't notice the impact sound until the enemy is getting a return on me - which would make sense from a realistic standpoint. This file continues to use the recording of the 40s/50s ping being recorded inside an old sub by the US Navy. These recordings were declassified and released in the 1960s by a sonar development company. The recordings themselves were presumably made in the 1940s or early 1950s.

VersionII:
http://www.filefront.com/15726323/Bi...Ping%20MkII.7z
MP3 of the uncoated hull sound (this MP3 is for demonstration purposes only; the file sounds much better in the game, so do try it in-game before deciding you hate it!):


Version IIB:
http://www.filefront.com/15733667/Bi...%20Mk%20IIB.7z

March 3rd, 2010:

Have made another version with a less-dramatic impact sound which mimics that heard on the HNSA recording more closely.

March 2nd, 2010:

I found an audio file that depicts active sonar hitting a submarine as recorded over an open microphone inside the submarine itself. This recording was declassified by the USN in the 1950s and released by a sonar development company in the 1960s. It is perhaps as old as the 1940s.

You can listen to it here: http://www.hnsa.org/sound/soundinthesea/track32.mp3

There is an audible "squeak" from the ping, followed (on two occasions) by a metallic impact sound - one of these is clearly audible at 0:04 following the squeak at 0:03, and the second is audible at 0:15 following the squeak at 0:13.

The Alberich sounds are still the weak point, since I don't really know how they should sound – I just shorten the impact and turn down the volume. I don't play in Alberich subs myself, so that's not a huge issue for me.

Download and enable with JSGME, and let me know what you think!
http://www.filefront.com/15726323/Bi...Ping%20MkII.7z

February 18th, 2010:
The general consensus is that a U-boat on the receiving end of active sonar heard something described as anything between "a pebble being dropped on the hull" to "wires dragging along the hull" or "a sledgehammer hitting the hull." The Hollywood ping is pure fantasy.

My aim is to make a ping sound that may be reasonably close to those sounds, or even a mix thereof.

To that end, I began experimenting with dropping pebbles on steel plating, hitting it with hammers, dragging wires along it... you know, normal stuff that normal people do.

I make my living as a musician, and so I have a few decent microphones. I also have a homemade piezo-electronic "hydrophone" (basically just a contact microphone that I can put in the bathtub without causing it to blow up, or myself to die).

In short, I've made some recordings outdoors, in my bathtub, and in a basement studio. Now I need to tweak them. I believe the recordings taken in the basement are actually the best – if one thinks about it, recording in the bathtub really makes no sense (I just wanted to try it out), since the submariners were not themselves in an aqueous environment when they heard the noise – the impact on the hull outside should transmit "dry" to the ears of those on the inside.

In the interests of maximum realism, I do also intend to test out a recording wherein I float a steel box with an open top in the bathtub. I will put a non-waterproof microphone inside the box, and then smack the outside bottom and sides of the box (which will be underwater) with pebbles, wires, and a ball-peen hammer (you know, normal bath-time stuff) to see if this works better, but I doubt it will. So far, I've narrowed it down to the basement recording, which will then be modified for the Alberich and improved Alberich (shortening of the sound, dampening of the sound, lowering of the pitch of the sound).

The most common reports I have found have likened it to the pebble sound, so that will be the dominant sound you hear, but I will tweak it to maybe have a little bit more of a "hammer" sound and a "wire-dragging" decay.

The fruits of my labours are coming along nicely, and I hope to be able to present you guys with something semi-finished by the weekend. I am generally not free to play SH3 during the week, so fixes and testing done by me may have to wait from weekend to weekend.

I know that there are differing opinions on what constitutes realism, and I know the community can be a bit critical, but I am going to leave the mod open to criticism and try to be gracious in accepting it, in the hopes that we can mod it as necessary. That said, I do aim to present a completed mod to begin with as well.

EDIT:

Here is Mk. I: the Alberich coating sounds are kind of lame, but I will work on them later (they are not a personal priority, since I have never used a U-boat with Alberich in the game).

It has been tested with Thomsen's Sound Pack, and I did not experience any conflicts. This is my first mod, so please let me know if things are in order. I enabled it with JSGME, and you should be able to as well.

Please note that if you are using Thomsen's Sound Pack, when the sonar operator tells you "Enemy is pinging us, sir!", the recording Thomsen uses includes the Hollywood-style ping in the background. So if you hear that briefly in the midst of the pebble-pings, it's an artifact from the Thomsen mod.

Version 1:
http://www.filefront.com/15620347/Bi...Ping%20Mk.I.7z



Hopefully there will be some interest in this.

[DivingDuck]

Sounds like an interesting setup. I reckon some of us would like to see some shots of your bathroom.
Btw, what does your wife call your "normal bath-time stuff"?

Regards,
DD

[BillCar]

My girlfriend usually just says that she'll have her shower "some other time."


Here's a link to a low-quality MP3 of my favourite of the files I've made so far. Let me know what you guys think. This is a pebble being dropped from 3 feet onto a steel plate, recorded with two microphones (one contact taped to the underside of the plate, another condenser pointed at the plate from above). I like that, despite being a pebble, it also has the immediacy and "oh heavens, not the ASDIC again!!!" sound of a hammer.

[JCWolf]

Originally Posted by DivingDuck

Sounds like an interesting setup. I reckon some of us would like to see some shots of your bathroom.
Btw, what does your wife call your "normal bath-time stuff"?

Regards,
DD

Damn... I just spelled the coffee all over the PC desk...

[BillCar]

I've never played with Alberich, but I've basically just modded the file to cut out the sharp initial impact, and pitched it down / shortened it a bit. I did this a tiny bit more for the improved Alberich.

I am testing right now with the mod installed over top of Thomsen's Sound Pack, and it's working just fine (only testing the regular hull, no coating). I'm actually pretty happy with it so far. At first I thought it was too quiet, but now it is really growing on me.

I'll upload the first version in a short while, hopefully, and then everyone can let me know if it sucks or not!

So far, though, I think it's great – the sound is subtle but distinct, and then you hear it coming more frequently, and then you hear the roar of propellers overhead and...

When you're being pinged by two or more ships simultaneously, it really has the sound of multiple pebbles being dropped, too!

The Alberich sounds are probably going to need changing, but so far, I really like the uncoated hull sound!

[lorka42]

Is there any way you could just post the sounds themselves?
(want to know if they differ from my normal, bath time sounds)

[Stoker]

It would be interesting to know if there are any real life recordings of sonar pings from subs being searched for by WW2 asdic. I spent about 4 years posted on a leander class frigate years back and the sound that you hear inside the hull of the vessel doing the pinging is nothing like you describe. Its kind of like a squealing sound that is worse than listening to fingernails on the blackboard sound. This is later technology and alot closer to the sorce however so my not even be relvant to this particular case.

[BillCar]

Maybe a difference in frequencies used? The accounts I've read from U-boat veterans who experienced ASDIC said it was like pebbles dropping on the hull, or the hull being hit with a hammer. Some said "wires being dragged on the hull" as well, which sounds a bit like what you describe? I know that active sonar was refined throughout the war and the frequencies kept increasing (if I remember correctly), so maybe the wires dragging sound is a late-war feature?

I'll probably wind up making multiple versions of this mod, so don't worry - if someone who can tell us definitively what's what shows up and says that that sound should be in, I will start making some recordings more like what you describe - then people can choose between the two. If it's a case of early-war ASDIC sounding one way and late-war ASDIC sounding another, then users can simply use JSGME to enable the pebble-hammer one for early war, and the screeching/scratching one for late war!

http://www.filefront.com/15620347/Bi...Ping%20Mk.I.7z

There's the first version for people to try out. The Alberich sounds are pretty lame, I will work on them for later - they weren't really a personal priority, since I have never used a sub that had Alberich.

@ lorka: there is an MP3 file linked above your post that you can try out - doesn't have the Alberich files, just the uncoated hull sound.

[Magic1111]

Thanks, I´ll give the sound a try...

Best regards,
Magic

[Ktl_KUrtz]

I have atempted too reproduce the sound of an Asdic ping as heard by the U-Boats!
Click on the link in my siggy to download.
KUrtz

[verte]

Originally Posted by Ktl_KUrtz

I have atempted too reproduce the sound of an Asdic ping as heard by the U-Boats!
Click on the link in my siggy to download.
KUrtz

Very interesting mods from both of you. I hope that some specialist will make a comment about it, because if it is more realistic I would gladly use it.

-----

Ktl_KUrtz, you are writting in readme:
"My thanks to Letum and Hitman for raising the issue of how the Asdic was heard by the U-Boats, they were the inspiration for this mod!"

Could you point me to such a post?

[JCWolf]

Originally Posted by AHT413

Check the last one "Sound of Sonar Ping" it is ping with an echo heard.http://www.uboataces.com/ref-sonar-sounds.shtml

This are modern Ping sonar sounds mate.

[piri_reis]

Originally Posted by Ktl_KUrtz

I have atempted too reproduce the sound of an Asdic ping as heard by the U-Boats!
Click on the link in my siggy to download.
KUrtz

Been using Kurtz's BritishAsdic sounds for a long while. Pretty realistic according to people I talked to..
Just checked BillCar's also, those are good too

[BillCar]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ar+ping&page=2

I did a search and found this thread in which the real ping sounds are discussed. From those in the know, it is said to sound like:

a) a hammer hitting a steel block
b) a click / squeak
c) pebbles dropping on the hull
d) wires dragging on the hull

I think that my mod is, so far, a good mix of the first three. I am going to maybe make it a little more "rattle-y" for the next version (which I am starting to work on already). I like Kurtz's mod too. In a perfect world, SH3 would have different ping volume settings for when the escort gets closer to you, and you could use both sound files at the same time.

[Ktl_KUrtz]

Originally Posted by piri_reis

Been using Kurtz's BritishAsdic sounds for a long while. Pretty realistic according to people I talked to..
Just checked BillCar's also, those are good too

I have attempted to reproduce the sound as heard by the U-boats!
As discussed above there are various sounds generated by a high frequency Asdic beam hitting the hull due to depth, water tempreture, salinity, currents and I should imagine a 101 other factors.
So any one will do.
KUrtz
Ps. Thanks for the positive comments!