Evading: when to go flank speed?

dfscott · 05-26-10, 03:16 PM

I've read several different opinions on evading escorts, particularly with regard to when to go flank speed and try and get some distance away. Here are some of the techniques I've heard:

1) Go flank as he passes overhead. You'll be in his baffles and he won't hear you.

2) Go flank when the depth charges hit the water -- he's already started his attack.

3) Go flank (and change direction) when the ashcans start exploding -- you need to get out of there now and he's likely moved past.

4) Same as #3, but only if you're actually getting DC'ed -- if the escort is not dumping them on you, going flank will give you away even with the explosions going off.

5) Go flank (and change depth) when you're getting the reverb ping (i.e., the loud ping-ping) -- this means he already knows where you are, so no sense trying to hide.

Ofc, this assumes a single escort -- things get more complicated with multiple ASW ships.

Brag · 05-26-10, 04:40 PM

The area in which asdic or sonar looses you depends on your depth.

Imagine an inverted cone above your sub that ends at the surface.

If you are at periscope depth the cone will be smaller that the lenght of the U-boat and the escort will not lose contact till on top of you.

As you go deeper, the wider the cone will be at the surface and the further away your escort will loose contact.

When in the baffles, he can´t hear you, nor when depth charges explode.

ryanglavin · 05-26-10, 04:47 PM

If its clear weather, and your caught by more than 1 ship past 1943, your just dead.

If its cloudy weather and your caught by more than 1 ship past 1943, you might get lucky.

Scape · 05-26-10, 05:00 PM

Stay still. Your not going to outrun them. Keep only the bare min speed to keep depth. Wait 30 min then creep away. Once they are long range then surface and run flank to out flank conviy but not to outrun DD.

sharkbit · 05-26-10, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Stay still. Your not going to outrun them.

No you won't outrun them, but you may avoid the DC's raining down on you.

Still, I try to use my time at flank pretty judiciously. Slow and silent is usually best.

I get constant reports from my hydro guy when under attack.
If the bearing is starting to lag(going behind me), I'll stay silent with maybe a course change thrown in now and again. He's probably going to miss astern.

If the bearings stay pretty constant(collision course), all hell will probably be breaking loose pretty soon and I'll hit flank when I get the "Wasserbomben!!" and do a course change (and maybe depth change), pray he doesn't have hedgehogs

, then cut the motors and coast when the DC's go off(and do a little more praying

). I'll start the motors back up to slow when my speed drops to 1kt.

If the bearings are starting to lead me(going toward the bow), probably a course change is in order and I'll wait and see before I pour the coals on depending on my gut feelings.

You can get a feel for the rate of bearing change and how close the destroyer is to aid in evasion and help you make the decision on course and speed changes.

Also, if you are being pinged and the escort is closing on you and the pinging stops, assume that you are out of the sonar cone. That might be the time to do something drastic, depending on the hydro information you have and your gut instinct.

TarJak · 05-26-10, 06:33 PM

Rule #1 is avoid getting detected in the first place. To do this loose your eels, dive immediately to 200m+ (speed tends not to matter much but the faster you dive the better). and change course to move away from the datum of your firing point. I aim for being at least 100m depth and 1km away from the datum by the time my first torpedo hits. This means using slow speed torps sometimes or shooting at ranges of ~1500m.

The datum is where the escorts will congregate to initiate their search. The further away from this point, the harder it will be for them to locate you.

I've been playing this way for the past 6 months with careers starting in 1941 and have largely been undetected in about 85% of attacks until reaching late 1943. Things get much much harder then as there are both more escorts and they have better detection capabilities which means detection often means death.

Once getting detected though, I tend to stay silent running on a relatively steady course for most of my evasion relying on depth (230-240m), to make it harder for the escorts to get a hit. I usually only use flank when I know the DC's are coming down almost directly on my boat and run for 20 seconds from the explosion of the last DC before returning to silent routine.

05-26-10, 04:40 PM	#2
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	The area in which asdic or sonar looses you depends on your depth. Imagine an inverted cone above your sub that ends at the surface. If you are at periscope depth the cone will be smaller that the lenght of the U-boat and the escort will not lose contact till on top of you. As you go deeper, the wider the cone will be at the surface and the further away your escort will loose contact. When in the baffles, he can´t hear you, nor when depth charges explode. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

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05-26-10, 03:16 PM	#1
dfscott Bosun Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Atlanta GA USA Posts: 68 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Evading: when to go flank speed? I've read several different opinions on evading escorts, particularly with regard to when to go flank speed and try and get some distance away. Here are some of the techniques I've heard: 1) Go flank as he passes overhead. You'll be in his baffles and he won't hear you. 2) Go flank when the depth charges hit the water -- he's already started his attack. 3) Go flank (and change direction) when the ashcans start exploding -- you need to get out of there now and he's likely moved past. 4) Same as #3, but only if you're actually getting DC'ed -- if the escort is not dumping them on you, going flank will give you away even with the explosions going off. 5) Go flank (and change depth) when you're getting the reverb ping (i.e., the loud ping-ping) -- this means he already knows where you are, so no sense trying to hide. Ofc, this assumes a single escort -- things get more complicated with multiple ASW ships. __________________

05-26-10, 04:47 PM	#3
ryanglavin Samurai Navy Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Evading that Hunter/Killer Group on my Tail Posts: 584 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	If its clear weather, and your caught by more than 1 ship past 1943, your just dead. If its cloudy weather and your caught by more than 1 ship past 1943, you might get lucky. __________________

05-26-10, 05:00 PM	#4
Scape Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kanada Posts: 92 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	Stay still. Your not going to outrun them. Keep only the bare min speed to keep depth. Wait 30 min then creep away. Once they are long range then surface and run flank to out flank conviy but not to outrun DD.

05-26-10, 06:33 PM	#6
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Rule #1 is avoid getting detected in the first place. To do this loose your eels, dive immediately to 200m+ (speed tends not to matter much but the faster you dive the better). and change course to move away from the datum of your firing point. I aim for being at least 100m depth and 1km away from the datum by the time my first torpedo hits. This means using slow speed torps sometimes or shooting at ranges of ~1500m. The datum is where the escorts will congregate to initiate their search. The further away from this point, the harder it will be for them to locate you. I've been playing this way for the past 6 months with careers starting in 1941 and have largely been undetected in about 85% of attacks until reaching late 1943. Things get much much harder then as there are both more escorts and they have better detection capabilities which means detection often means death. Once getting detected though, I tend to stay silent running on a relatively steady course for most of my evasion relying on depth (230-240m), to make it harder for the escorts to get a hit. I usually only use flank when I know the DC's are coming down almost directly on my boat and run for 20 seconds from the explosion of the last DC before returning to silent routine.