Why I'm done...

GoldenRivet · 08-25-09, 01:54 PM

... Posting in political threads in any large scale.

First and foremost, this post comes in response to nothing which has occurred here at subsim... only as a result of the realization that i am very passionate in many areas of life and politics ranks high on the list. However, discussing politics can bring out the best in me, but more often than not discussing politics has brought out the worst in me on a few occasions.

if i make one thing clear in this post, let it be this statement right here...

I value the friendships, and the community at subsim and my inclusion into the community far too much to risk ruining any of it just so that i can interject my (often useless) opinion into some (often useless) politically charged thread.

Secondly...

There will always be an "us" and a "them".

politically this is almost always universally the case.

"us" and "them" will almost never see eye to eye on virtually any issue.

discussions between "us" and "them" almost always deteriorate into someone being compared to Hitler, or some off hand insults being flung about, or "us" talking about how stupid "them" is for having such a ridiculous opinion... and its just not worth it to me.

No matter how much "us" and "them" sit down to a discussion or a debate... though both sides might put out very convincing material, neither side will ever be swayed to the other's point of view.

the simple way of looking at politics in America particularly is that... this nation belongs to "Us" for 4 to 8 years... and then it belongs to "them" for 4 to 8 years. sometimes longer... sometimes shorter... but in the end thats the way it looks to me.

its all multiple sides to one massive ongoing argument, one ongoing struggle, one ongoing gripe fest about who is right and who is wrong and there is enough strife, confusion and anger in life for me to continue giving a damn about any of this political nonsense.

I will continue to discuss these issues in private with others, or even publicly with others, but not here at subsim.

i owe far too much respect to - what i have called before - my "brethren" here at subsim to risk my rational thought processes being overruled by passionate opinion - and some slip up, or some remark, or some statement causing malice between myself and the other memebers here.

i value all here as assets to the community and as friends, and i have done nothing to keep my identity secret... some have met me, some know how to contact me directly within seconds on my private phone number or e mail... i have made NO attempt to hide behind the mask of a screen name or online pseudonym.

anyone who has read my past posts knows how i feel, some agree with me entirely, some slightly.... others disagree with me on some issues... others have probably screamed at their monitors in anger or frustration

but to that i say... no more for me.

one does not get to pick and chose the time and place and method of his ending... life is way too fu**in short to be worrying about what some "liberal" or what some "faux news worshipper" half a world away thinks about the price of rice in China.

people piss and moan, and the world... she just turns.

SteamWake · 08-25-09, 01:59 PM

Nope nothing is going to be solved in a forum.

Just dont let up in your real life, these issues are important to us all.

mookiemookie · 08-25-09, 01:59 PM

You're right. We can sit here and try and prove a point or shout the other person down, or land the rhetorical knockout blow, but it boils down to the fact that no one's really going to change their mind, and no problems will actually be solved.

I respect your decision, even though we (often!) disagree.

Aramike · 08-25-09, 02:04 PM

I for one enjoy contentious political conversation and see nothing wrong with it. In my personal and professional life I engage in it often. In fact, I'd say half of my friends are liberals, half are conservatives. We may all debate and argue, but when its over we're still friends.

The problems only arise when people debate things and can't get past it after all's been said and done. But the problem isn't the debate ... its the person.

And really, who wants to be around someone who demands that everyone only see it their way, anyway? Hell with them, I say.

PeriscopeDepth · 08-25-09, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

I for one enjoy contentious political conversation and see nothing wrong with it. In my personal and professional life I engage in it often. In fact, I'd say half of my friends are liberals, half are conservatives. We may all debate and argue, but when its over we're still friends.

The problems only arise when people debate things and can't get past it after all's been said and done. But the problem isn't the debate ... its the person.

The problem is the faceless Interwebs brings this out a lot more in people. People say things and act in ways they NEVER would in a face to face discussion. IMO.

PD

GoldenRivet · 08-25-09, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

The problem is the faceless Interwebs brings this out a lot more in people. People say things and act in ways they NEVER would in a face to face discussion. IMO.

PD

This is my point exactly, and part of my purpose of this post is to "self regulate" the possibility of a.... personality explosion.

PeriscopeDepth · 08-25-09, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

This is my point exactly, and part of my purpose of this post is to "self regulate" the possibility of a.... personality explosion.

And a wise, honourable thing to do sir.

Plenty of other more fun/productive ways to waste ones time on a computer/Internets.

PD

Aramike · 08-25-09, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

The problem is the faceless Interwebs brings this out a lot more in people. People say things and act in ways they NEVER would in a face to face discussion. IMO.

PD

Heh, most people here are pretty good about it. The bottom line is that if someone steps too far out of line, the mods should step in.

I respect your decision to stay out of it, though ... just sayin'.

ETR3(SS) · 08-25-09, 02:34 PM

It takes a very wise and big man to say when. I'm glad to have you at the forums.

MothBalls · 08-26-09, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

You're right. We can sit here and try and prove a point or shout the other person down, or land the rhetorical knockout blow, but it boils down to the fact that no one's really going to change their mind, and no problems will actually be solved.

Don't know if I agree with that. In order to form an intelligent opinion you need to open your mind to all points of view. I've changed my mind on issues because of things I read, having other people point out things I didn't think of. I wouldn't say a forum is a good place to gather facts, but it could point you in the right direction to get the information you need.

"A closed mind gathers no intelligence"

I think debate is healthy. A forum is just a convenient place to do it. However, still trying to figure out what taxes, health care, and religion have to do with submarines......

Takeda Shingen · 08-26-09, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MothBalls

Don't know if I agree with that. In order to form an intelligent opinion you need to open your mind to all points of view. I've changed my mind on issues because of things I read, having other people point out things I didn't think of. I wouldn't say a forum is a good place to gather facts, but it could point you in the right direction to get the information you need.

"A closed mind gathers no intelligence"

I think debate is healthy. A forum is just a convenient place to do it. However, still trying to figure out what taxes, health care, and religion have to do with submarines......

I've read these forums for nine years and have never seen anyone have his mind changed because of discourse. As I have said repeatedly, political discourse on the internet is as toxic as it is futile. Some have greater resistance than others, but it will eventually get to you.

A wise decision, GoldenRivet.

Jimbuna · 08-26-09, 11:23 AM

Well put GR

Don't vote it only encourages them....besides, opinions are like ar$eholes, everybody has one

sharkbit · 08-26-09, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

....besides, opinions are like ar$eholes, everybody has one

And they usually stink.

Frame57 · 08-27-09, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MothBalls

Don't know if I agree with that. In order to form an intelligent opinion you need to open your mind to all points of view. I've changed my mind on issues because of things I read, having other people point out things I didn't think of. I wouldn't say a forum is a good place to gather facts, but it could point you in the right direction to get the information you need.

"A closed mind gathers no intelligence"

I think debate is healthy. A forum is just a convenient place to do it. However, still trying to figure out what taxes, health care, and religion have to do with submarines......

Agreed 100%

sharkbit · 08-25-09, 01:59 PM

You know what they say:
Never discuss religion or politics at a dinner party.

That should probably include internet forums as well.

08-25-09, 01:54 PM	#1
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Why I'm done... ... Posting in political threads in any large scale. First and foremost, this post comes in response to nothing which has occurred here at subsim... only as a result of the realization that i am very passionate in many areas of life and politics ranks high on the list. However, discussing politics can bring out the best in me, but more often than not discussing politics has brought out the worst in me on a few occasions. if i make one thing clear in this post, let it be this statement right here... I value the friendships, and the community at subsim and my inclusion into the community far too much to risk ruining any of it just so that i can interject my (often useless) opinion into some (often useless) politically charged thread. Secondly... There will always be an "us" and a "them". politically this is almost always universally the case. "us" and "them" will almost never see eye to eye on virtually any issue. discussions between "us" and "them" almost always deteriorate into someone being compared to Hitler, or some off hand insults being flung about, or "us" talking about how stupid "them" is for having such a ridiculous opinion... and its just not worth it to me. No matter how much "us" and "them" sit down to a discussion or a debate... though both sides might put out very convincing material, neither side will ever be swayed to the other's point of view. the simple way of looking at politics in America particularly is that... this nation belongs to "Us" for 4 to 8 years... and then it belongs to "them" for 4 to 8 years. sometimes longer... sometimes shorter... but in the end thats the way it looks to me. its all multiple sides to one massive ongoing argument, one ongoing struggle, one ongoing gripe fest about who is right and who is wrong and there is enough strife, confusion and anger in life for me to continue giving a damn about any of this political nonsense. I will continue to discuss these issues in private with others, or even publicly with others, but not here at subsim. i owe far too much respect to - what i have called before - my "brethren" here at subsim to risk my rational thought processes being overruled by passionate opinion - and some slip up, or some remark, or some statement causing malice between myself and the other memebers here. i value all here as assets to the community and as friends, and i have done nothing to keep my identity secret... some have met me, some know how to contact me directly within seconds on my private phone number or e mail... i have made NO attempt to hide behind the mask of a screen name or online pseudonym. anyone who has read my past posts knows how i feel, some agree with me entirely, some slightly.... others disagree with me on some issues... others have probably screamed at their monitors in anger or frustration but to that i say... no more for me. one does not get to pick and chose the time and place and method of his ending... life is way too fu**in short to be worrying about what some "liberal" or what some "faux news worshipper" half a world away thinks about the price of rice in China. people piss and moan, and the world... she just turns. __________________

08-25-09, 01:59 PM	#2
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Nope nothing is going to be solved in a forum. Just dont let up in your real life, these issues are important to us all. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

08-25-09, 01:59 PM	#3
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	You're right. We can sit here and try and prove a point or shout the other person down, or land the rhetorical knockout blow, but it boils down to the fact that no one's really going to change their mind, and no problems will actually be solved. I respect your decision, even though we (often!) disagree. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

08-25-09, 02:34 PM	#9
ETR3(SS) Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Between test depth and periscope depth Posts: 3,021 Downloads: 175 Uploads: 16	It takes a very wise and big man to say when. I'm glad to have you at the forums. __________________ USS Kentucky SSBN 737 (G) Comms Div 2003-2006 Qualified 19 November 03 Yes I was really on a submarine.

08-26-09, 11:23 AM	#12
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,525 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Well put GR Don't vote it only encourages them....besides, opinions are like ar$eholes, everybody has one __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-25-09, 02:04 PM	#4
Aramike Ocean Warrior Best of SUBSIM Chairman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 3,207 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	I for one enjoy contentious political conversation and see nothing wrong with it. In my personal and professional life I engage in it often. In fact, I'd say half of my friends are liberals, half are conservatives. We may all debate and argue, but when its over we're still friends. The problems only arise when people debate things and can't get past it after all's been said and done. But the problem isn't the debate ... its the person. And really, who wants to be around someone who demands that everyone only see it their way, anyway? Hell with them, I say.

08-25-09, 01:59 PM	#15
sharkbit The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,529 Downloads: 334 Uploads: 0	You know what they say: Never discuss religion or politics at a dinner party. That should probably include internet forums as well. __________________ “Prejudice is blind. There will always be someone who says you aren’t welcome at the table. Stop apologizing for who you are and using all your energy trying to change their minds. Yes, you will lose friends, maybe even family. But you will gain your self-respect. You will know your worth. Once you have that, nothing can stop you.”

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