Dave/LeoVampire's Reflections on the Water

[Reno]

Returning to SH4 after a year's separation was a bit of a shock. I was sorry to hear about Dave (leovampire). I thought his Reflections on the Water mod was a work of art. But when I searched in the Mobius' mods list for ROW mods I was surprised to see that they're not included. Has this mod fallen that much out of favor or is it just not compatible with 1.4 anymore?

I know that PE4 is supposed to be building on Dave's work but the water has definitely been changed. It would be nice to see a PE4 version retaining ROW while just adding to it or making it compatible with 1.5.

Sorry for the rant. I just hate to see this happen to Dave's work. I know there's probably been a lot of discussion about this but I can't seem to find it in the forum. If someone would point me to a relevant thread I'd appreciate it.

[mobius22]

Originally Posted by Reno

Returning to SH4 after a year's separation was a bit of a shock. I was sorry to hear about Dave (leovampire). I thought his Reflections on the Water mod was a work of art. But when I searched in the Mobius' mods list for ROW mods I was surprised to see that they're not included. Has this mod fallen that much out of favor or is it just not compatible with 1.4 anymore?

I know that PE4 is supposed to be building on Dave's work but the water has definitely been changed. It would be nice to see a PE4 version retaining ROW while just adding to it or making it compatible with 1.5.

Sorry for the rant. I just hate to see this happen to Dave's work. I know there's probably been a lot of discussion about this but I can't seem to find it in the forum. If someone would point me to a relevant thread I'd appreciate it.

I always considered PE to be the next version of his work. I also did not want to post multiple versions of the same mods (Betas, Beta .9, 1.0, 1.1, 1.12 etc) and I prefer to keep it updated...when I remember to update it. It should be in the forums somewhere, however.

[Torps]

Originally Posted by Reno

Returning to SH4 after a year's separation was a bit of a shock. I was sorry to hear about Dave (leovampire). I thought his Reflections on the Water mod was a work of art. But when I searched in the Mobius' mods list for ROW mods I was surprised to see that they're not included. Has this mod fallen that much out of favor or is it just not compatible with 1.4 anymore?

I know that PE4 is supposed to be building on Dave's work but the water has definitely been changed. It would be nice to see a PE4 version retaining ROW while just adding to it or making it compatible with 1.5.

Sorry for the rant. I just hate to see this happen to Dave's work. I know there's probably been a lot of discussion about this but I can't seem to find it in the forum. If someone would point me to a relevant thread I'd appreciate it.

I definately can under stand your shock. I worked alot with Dave and I can assure you Kriller2 has continued his work with PE 4. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=138663 If you download PE 4 you will see alot of Daves work. And btw if you look at the credits in SH4 Uboat addon 1.5 you will find Dave in the credits .

Daves works.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=130150

[Reno]

Thanks for the links, Torps. I'm working my way through the ROW thread now. It's good to read Dave's comments. It's like he's still here.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Originally Posted by Reno

It's good to read Dave's comments. It's like he's still here.

Don't worry, I am sure he is out there with a big smile on his face knowing that
his work is being continued and improved upon.


RDP

[Digital_Trucker]

Reno, if you'd like to add a little bit of Dave to your game, click the "LV Tribute Mod" link in my signature. It's a compilation of a tribute opening video, loading screen and some other additions to the office part of the game. Working with Dave was a major reason I started fooling around with modding and I could never thank him enough for the insanity that it has caused:rotfl:

[Reno]

No worries. Like you, I think his spirit will always be here. As far as his work being continued and improved upon, I always thought, and I think Dave thought too, that the water reflections, water effects, and water colors were pretty much done to his satisfaction and to his vision of the way the Pacific Ocean really was. In other words, with respect to the water, he was pretty much done. There was no indication in any of the threads that I have read so far that Dave thought the water color was that much off that it needed to be changed to a vivid blue.

I always felt that the variety of hues and colors in ROW was perfect and did not need to be improved upon. I've spent time in Vietnam and Korea and swam in the South China Sea. In my opinion Dave's vision of the Pacific is alot closer to the way the waters normally were then the vivid blue I'm constantly seeing in PE4 and by extention, RFB.

Don't get me wrong. I think there is always room for improvement but the ROW water effects were damn near perfect and should have been left alone. In reading the ROW threads, when Dave was still with us, it seemed most everyone felt the same way too. Just as an example...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=111

I think what happened here is some folks latched on to some pretty pictures and used them as baseline colors. The shot of the carrier steaming along in blue water is an example. I can show you a similar photo of the Teddy R in the Atlantic with the same vivid blue. And we all know how the Atlantic can get. To use that color as an Atlantic baseline would be just as wrong as using it as a Pacific baseline. I've already shown you a photo of the Luzon area. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...38&postcount=2 I can also show you photos of Tokyo Bay that are nowhere near the blue of PE4.

The creators of PE4 have a vision of the Pacific that is very different from Dave's vision. I'm not saying their vision is wrong, I'm just saying it's different. All I ask is that PE4 remain a separate mod and that the Classic ROW be kept alive for those who choose that vision. Add to it yes. Improve on the sky and land textures, make it have better sound, better clouds, make it compatible with 1.5, but please leave the water alone. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Thanks for listening.

[kriller2]

Originally Posted by Reno

No worries. Like you, I think his spirit will always be here. As far as his work being continued and improved upon, I always thought, and I think Dave thought too, that the water reflections, water effects, and water colors were pretty much done to his satisfaction and to his vision of the way the Pacific Ocean really was. In other words, with respect to the water, he was pretty much done. There was no indication in any of the threads that I have read so far that Dave thought the water color was that much off that it needed to be changed to a vivid blue.

I always felt that the variety of hues and colors in ROW was perfect and did not need to be improved upon. I've spent time in Vietnam and Korea and swam in the South China Sea. In my opinion Dave's vision of the Pacific is alot closer to the way the waters normally were then the vivid blue I'm constantly seeing in PE4 and by extention, RFB.

Don't get me wrong. I think there is always room for improvement but the ROW water effects were damn near perfect and should have been left alone. In reading the ROW threads, when Dave was still with us, it seemed most everyone felt the same way too. Just as an example...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=111

I think what happened here is some folks latched on to some pretty pictures and used them as baseline colors. The shot of the carrier steaming along in blue water is an example. I can show you a similar photo of the Teddy R in the Atlantic with the same vivid blue. And we all know how the Atlantic can get. To use that color as an Atlantic baseline would be just as wrong as using it as a Pacific baseline. I've already shown you a photo of the Luzon area. I can also show you photos of Tokyo Bay that are no where near the blue of PE4.

The creators of PE4 have a vision of the Pacific that is very different from Dave's vision. I'm not saying their vision is wrong, I'm just saying it's different. All I ask is that PE4 remain a separate mod and that the Classic ROW be kept alive for those who choose that vision. Add to it yes. Improve on the sky and land textures, make it have better sound, make it compatible with 1.5 but please leave the water alone. Thanks for listening.

Hi Reno,
You have been away for to long... There are 4 different versions of PE if you took a little time and read the thread with ROW you would know that my first version of "Addon for reflections on the water" was a tribute to Dave where I kept our ROW-colours and just improved on the work he was doing before his tragic death to be able to release it to the public, without editing the water colour.

Then later I started developing my own version of the Pacific and gathered most of the group who worked with me and Dave with the mod PE which uses a new blue water colour, but it is my way to keep Dave's spirit alive and Im sad to hear that you think that my work is not supporting Dave's work, is this accusation just because the water colours is not green? Unfortunately it's not possible to make a mod or a game which takes all the different aspects of how a water colour is created around the globe, with small animals in some parts of the pacific making the ocean blue to how the different environment colours are near Hawaii, it would be impossible.

So if I made a new environment mod with green colour then you would be happy, but suddenly alot of other people would complain and wanted to have blue pacific colours in some other part of the world, can you see the picture?

Threads like this makes modders just dissapear , use PE4 if you like it and if you don't like it, then use another mod. There are many alternatives on subsim for PE, both TM, and Wclears EE mod.

[Reno]

I'm sorry if what I said offended you. It was not meant to. You are a very talented modder and SH is a better place for it. By your own admission your vision of the Pacific and Dave's vision of the Pacific (with respect to the water environment) are different.

All I ask is that Classic ROW be kept alive with mods and version updates and that it not be forgotten. If you look on Mobius's mod list you won't find any reference to ROW because he assumes, like I'm sure many others do, that PE is just an extension of ROW. PE's association with ROW I think blurred the fact that they are really two different mods. The end result I fear is that your 1.4 update of Classic Row will be the last and that ROW will eventually fade away.

[kriller2]

Okay I can see your point and I accept your apology but the decision was made to let ROW stand alone on it's feet with the addon and then move on with a new name "PE" and water colour. I think I know now why you have made this thread and your intentions of it now...

[Reno]

I added ROW 1.4 to SH4 1.5 and RSRD 1.5 and all seems to work fine. Here's a few more screen shots...









Not sure if it's going to work with RFB 1.5 and TMO 1.5. I'll give it a try this weekend.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Reno

Not sure if it's going to work with RFB 1.5 and TMO 1.5. I'll give it a try this weekend.

don't

[Reno]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

don't

That was helpful.

[DeepIron]

Originally Posted by Reno

That was helpful.

PE4 is already integrated into RFB 1.5... Overwriting those files with ROW will cause incompatibilities and problems.

[Reno]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

PE4 is already integrated into RFB 1.5...

I know. I was hoping that overwriting PE with ROW would just remove and replace. Is there any way of disabling PE4? I heard that getting rid of the environmental files would work but I'm not sure how to do that.