..to flak or not to flak....

[Grayson02sept1980]

I have a IXc now with standart tower #1 (one flak) and the air umbrella etc really gets annoying as one can not even reload a single torp from the externals without being disturbed by the flyboys.

Is it worth getting a #3 tower with all that flak and "waste" the men as flak crew when they could work as "Maschinist" or "Torpedoschütze" ? (your oppinion? experience - from your point of view)

After some tests around St.George Canal:

I have also experience, though having the flak stations (in a test run with the #3 tower) maned, not all men firing.
(all have Flak "experience" though I cheatet a bit with SH3Commander assigning experienced Crewman with flak experience )
- the station was label 100% operational (green bar 100% full)
- the WO also has Flak experience so for sure 100% flak
Only the Quad fired. (thats only half of all the flak)

Do only Petty Officers (German: Maat - Maate(pl)) fire flak guns?
or what went wrong... cause when I maned the station with three Petty Officers and a crew man (all Flakgunners ) they fired all and brought a bomber down before it was even close enough to fire succesfull at us let alone drop a single DC/bomb

I will do further tests with "specialized" crewman - this is one thing SH3Commander seems to enable for further realism... I have not found the green bar increase but you can make sure to have at least one higher experienced crewman assigned to the station by double clicking as it seems... a slight advantage nevertheless

[flakmonkey]

If your running stock then it makes sense since you have a good chance of shooting down planes with no or very little damage to your boat/crew.

If your running GWX then i really wouldnt bother with heavy flak, your specialised flak crew will probably all be killed on the first encounter with a plane anyway, planes are mean in GWX!

+Crew dont have to be qualified to use the flak guns though so i guess you could get the tower upgrade and use unskilled crew to man the guns, even a fully qualified crew will very rarely hit anything so why waste the qualifications, go for more usefull quals like torp/engineer/repair.

++Just make sure your watch officer has a flak qualification since that will affect any flak crew too.

[3Jane]

I think it's a game bug which causes one or more of the flak guns not to fire. As I remember it, with multiple flak positions you have to manually 'visit' each position to make them all work.
As for actually using them, only if the water is too shallow to dive or some other reason why you can't dive. Also, if the aircraft isn't spotted until it is fairly close. By that time there won't be enough time to dive fully before it attacks.

[Brag]

I don't bother with extra flack in GWX

[SmokinTep]

Me neither. Flak=useless......

[Gezoes]

I've seen the guns not firing from time to time.

I'm guessing it's late in the war. I would take a quad perhaps... but that's it.

Bad weather is your friend now. Try reloading at night in bad weather.

Good thing our crew can't be washed off deck!

[Keelbuster]

I kinda like the sound of the quad + 2x flakswhilling firing. It sounds like Tommy is catching hell. Unfortunately he is not. AI flak gunners systematically miss. To shoot down a plane you need to man a gun personally and hit the plane's engines (all other parts appear to be invulnerable). And the quad flak is the best for personal gunning, so get the upgrade that includes that one.

[Keelbuster]

Originally Posted by Gezoes

I've seen the guns not firing from time to time.

I'm guessing it's late in the war. I would take a quad perhaps... but that's it.

Bad weather is your friend now. Try reloading at night in bad weather.

Good thing our crew can't be washed off deck!

As a realism catch, I force myself to reload in calm weather (the test being if the gun crew can man the gun) and all-stop. This makes it tense because depending on where you are, it might be interrupted. There's a quirk I've found - if you are forced to dive while the external is being loaded, two things can happen. If the torpedo is less than half-way loaded, then the torpedo goes back into the external store and can be reloaded again when you surface (sometimes it even carries on from where it left off!). If the torpedo is more than halfway loaded, the torpedo is lost - I guess the boys just shove it overboard.

[Grayson02sept1980]

Originally Posted by Keelbuster

As a realism catch, I force myself to reload in calm weather (the test being if the gun crew can man the gun) and all-stop. This makes it tense because depending on where you are, it might be interrupted. There's a quirk I've found - if you are forced to dive while the external is being loaded, two things can happen. If the torpedo is less than half-way loaded, then the torpedo goes back into the external store and can be reloaded again when you surface (sometimes it even carries on from where it left off!). If the torpedo is more than halfway loaded, the torpedo is lost - I guess the boys just shove it overboard.

this I have not recognized yet... but truly the fact it simply stopped with the reload process below 50% and the good boys just picked up where they were interupted... no "restart"...

dunno if that can be changed... too many things are hardcoded imho... tome for UBI to open up SH3 for the public!

[Platapus]

There is a thread here on the "flak bug" with some work arounds.

I have never had a type IX, but my experiences in the type VII late in the war (GWX2) is that the extra flak was a waste of renown.

I upgraded my rusty VIIc with the quad and two lights. It was less than satisfactory
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131891

By the time I was able to upgrade, the enemy had upgraded their aircraft (no fair!)

Like one of the previous posters posted, your well trained flak team can easily be killed with one lucky strafe. This can happen especially during attacks where there are two aircraft attacking you. I don't believe there is any way to target multiple aircraft other than taking control over one of the stations your self.

Aircraft are a lot like bees. They may die in the attack but you will still take damage. This damage can mount up especially when in 43-44 when you are being air attacked 24 hours a day. Five "suicide" air attacks can severely damage your sub.

I don't know if this "trick" will work with the XI, but it works well with the VII. When cruising on the surface and you get a radar hit from an aircraft set your depth to 7 meters. You will still be on the surface and still on diesels. But you are "almost" diving. When you give the command to crash dive (have nav check depth first (boink!) you will dive much sooner. Naturally turn toward the attacking aircraft to throw off their aim.

There is no two ways about it. Air attacks will be the bane of submarines from mid 43 on. Hiding under water seems to be the best way. This is one of the reasons I did not want to change to the IX. The diving time for a Type IX is about a month right?

Oh did I mention the rockets? <ouch>

[danurve]

When a two dual flak gunners can't finish off a kingfisher you know it's time to just dive.
But dang the VIIB/2 set-up looks cool.

[94cruiser]

With the stock game I was running U-Flack on a type VII and I had the radar turned on to help them guide to me. I was knocking down left and right,

Now with GWX it's a completely different story!
type VII with the "double barrell" gun I got attacked by two swordfish byplanes.
After they dropped bombs I barely made it home! Killed all the flackmen, both periscopes destroyed, hydro destroyed, overall massive damages throught the boat. Hull at 56%
This was when I was running at flank speed. I dare not to think what rockets can do.

I like GWX and I see the point how these flyboys have all the advantages and now I crashdive whenever I see a plane. I was way too cocky and thought I could take out those WWI era planes. Too bad as I was looking forward to another U-Flack.

[STEED]

You need the flak guns to mow down any survivors. Think about it, your doing them a favor by saving them from a slow death or a sharks Sunday lunch. This is total war you have to be harsh.

Originally Posted by 3Jane

I think it's a game bug which causes one or more of the flak guns not to fire. As I remember it, with multiple flak positions you have to manually 'visit' each position to make them all work.
As for actually using them, only if the water is too shallow to dive or some other reason why you can't dive. Also, if the aircraft isn't spotted until it is fairly close. By that time there won't be enough time to dive fully before it attacks.

3Jane is right: the way to positively assure all the flak stations fire is to toggle between each one and the bridge. Hit F4, then the first flak station, then F4 again and the next flak station, etc, until you've gone to each one. That should do the trick!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Albrecht Von Hesse

3Jane is right: the way to positively assure all the flak stations fire is to toggle between each one and the bridge. Hit F4, then the first flak station, then F4 again and the next flak station, etc, until you've gone to each one. That should do the trick!

That's correct....but to be honest (especially in GWX2,0 latter years)....the odds are really stacked against you in terms of air attack.....just as they were in RL