RFB Deck Gun Shooting Blanks?

captiandon · 09-30-07, 12:31 AM

I was shooting this ship at point blank range, and nothing. I put several armor Piercing rounds thru his engine room and nothing. I should have shot his rudder off with just two rounds. Nothing. I thought this was supposed to be realistic. I do like all the other aspects of the Mod but man does it have some flaws as far as the deck gun. Reload times are slow. I watched video of guys loading a gun in WW2 and they loaded much faster than this. I coudnt make a dent in this ship after fireing over 50 shells at point blank range. I guess I should just pass him my mail and leave.

Vlad34 · 09-30-07, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captiandon

I was shooting this ship at point blank range, and nothing. I put several armor Piercing rounds thru his engine room and nothing. I should have shot his rudder off with just two rounds. Nothing. I thought this was supposed to be realistic. I do like all the other aspects of the Mod but man does it have some flaws as far as the deck gun. Reload times are slow. I watched video of guys loading a gun in WW2 and they loaded much faster than this. I coudnt make a dent in this ship after fireing over 50 shells at point blank range. I guess I should just pass him my mail and leave.

Never encountered such a glitch with the deck gun, nor have I heard about one until now. Are you sure you know how to aim that thing?:hmm:

captiandon · 09-30-07, 12:48 AM

Yep I do know how to shoot it, Sorry Beery if I sound like I am ranting I do like your addon its great but its just the deck gun should be more effective than this shouldnt it? I Blew off all the live boats and his anti aircraft guns and still didnt even get a fire to light up on deck. I have gone thru about half my shells and havent made a dent. one would think that I could at that range after putting a few shells thru his engines would have atleast slowed him down. Those Merchants were not armored. Heck the Titantic only took a few small holes to sink it. I was wondering if there is a way I can regain atleast half of the deck guns effectiveness. Heck I did most of that dammage with the AA guns.

captiandon · 09-30-07, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad34

Quote:

Originally Posted by captiandon

I was shooting this ship at point blank range, and nothing. I put several armor Piercing rounds thru his engine room and nothing. I should have shot his rudder off with just two rounds. Nothing. I thought this was supposed to be realistic. I do like all the other aspects of the Mod but man does it have some flaws as far as the deck gun. Reload times are slow. I watched video of guys loading a gun in WW2 and they loaded much faster than this. I coudnt make a dent in this ship after fireing over 50 shells at point blank range. I guess I should just pass him my mail and leave.

Never encountered such a glitch with the deck gun, nor have I heard about one until now. Are you sure you know how to aim that thing?:hmm:

Nope its just with the Real Fleet boat mod. I recommend it but I think the deck gun needs alittle more work on this. Granted they had to bring the shells up but there were crew that would have been doing this. As far as my aim how could I miss at such a close range. I was close enough that I could have passed the mail to them. about 50 to 75 feet away.

Fish40 · 10-01-07, 02:48 PM

Not to sound like a smartass or something, but you were aiming below the waterline right? You could shoot a hundred shells at point blank range, and have the whole ship ablaze, but if there is no damage below the waterline, that baby aint going down.

As for the deckgun rate of fire, this has been covered a million times. I happen to use RFB as well, and I must say that Beery has gone to great lengths to ensure that the ROF is as accurate as could be expected in a COMBAT situation. Alot of research was done on this, and from what I could tell, nobody has shown it to be otherwise.

Digital_Trucker · 10-01-07, 05:00 PM

at point blank range, can you even hit below the waterline? I don't think you can lower the gun enough to hit below the waterline if you are extremely close to the target.

fred8615 · 10-01-07, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

at point blank range, can you even hit below the waterline? I don't think you can lower the gun enough to hit below the waterline if you are extremely close to the target.

As long as you don't zoom into looking through the eyepiece, the gun will go lower.

My complaint about the RFB deck was needing 20 to 30 or more shells to sink a wooden fishing boat or sampan! Even using a 3 incher it should blow some nice holes in a wooden hull.

captiandon · 10-02-07, 01:49 PM

Ya I was watching the Videos that came with the game and they said that it was a rapid fire deck gun and you could see clearly in one shot that they did alot of dammage to one ship with just one shell. Three rounds per min is way to slow. A revlotionary War 24 pounder could make 2 rounds a min and that was a muzzle loader on the USS Constitution. Were talking about a Gun with self containing shells that are breach loaded here and were firing at rates and damage factors of less then the old 24 pounders.

10-02-07, 03:41 PM

the slow rof was due to the shells below deck having to be handed up onto deck for the gun crew to load and you can understand that dropping one could be messy.

most times they were waiting for ammo so having shells ready on deck they could fire faster but not getting shells from below deck in a steady fire situation.

captiandon · 10-02-07, 03:58 PM

Ya but should it take the entire stash of shells just to sink one ship. Firing close in should be devistating attack at any rate. Were talking about both rof and damage. Rate on the deck gun was 10 shells per min and that was the 5 inch. I was reading that shells were kept in water proof boxes near the gun, with extra shells stored below. In the Video they had several crew working the gun not just the two gunners. In Real battle situations they would want to get the shells there as fast as possable. "Some" safty is trown aside when sinking a ship is priority. Besides on the video the rate seemed to be a bit higher when they were firing an that was just in gunnery pratice not in war situation. A shell every 10 seconds would be more like the rate I would expect which would be a rate of 6 per min. I dont think that would be unachiveable.
As far as Damage one would expect that when firing at a ship and hitting several locations over a ship would be really devistating to a thin skinned Merchant. These shells were designed for aromored ships so they would be very effective against the merchants.

captiandon · 10-02-07, 04:30 PM

What files where modified so I know what to replace on the deck gun? I guess the solution is replace what I dont like with the orignals.

captiandon · 10-03-07, 06:40 PM

Never mind I fixed it. I made a second install of Silent Hunter and took out the deck gun files and replaced them, works fine now. I think that the stock gun files are as accurate as one can get. I also found that a less expiranced Gun crew fires slower so maby one would put a less expirenced crew with the stock settings you can get the resoult that your looking for.

Sailor Steve · 10-03-07, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captiandon

Ya but should it take the entire stash of shells just to sink one ship. Firing close in should be devistating attack at any rate. Were talking about both rof and damage. Rate on the deck gun was 10 shells per min and that was the 5 inch. I was reading that shells were kept in water proof boxes near the gun, with extra shells stored below. In the Video they had several crew working the gun not just the two gunners. In Real battle situations they would want to get the shells there as fast as possable. "Some" safty is trown aside when sinking a ship is priority. Besides on the video the rate seemed to be a bit higher when they were firing an that was just in gunnery pratice not in war situation. A shell every 10 seconds would be more like the rate I would expect which would be a rate of 6 per min. I dont think that would be unachiveable.

We've had this discussion many times over the past two years, since Beery's 'Real U-Boat' mod was released for SH3.

The problem is that "as fast as possible" varies with a lot of different conditions. How fast the crew can pass up shells isn't the real decider; it's how accurately the gunner can aim from a highly unstable platform. Beery consulted a lot of combat reports, and the numbers he came up with were the average maximum rates of fire for all reports. The game doesn't reduce the rate of fire for heavier weather, and while the AI gun team miss a lot, the game allows the player to be perfectly accurate with every shot; something definitely not possible in real life.

Quote:

As far as Damage one would expect that when firing at a ship and hitting several locations over a ship would be really devistating to a thin skinned Merchant. These shells were designed for aromored ships so they would be very effective against the merchants.

What one would expect and what actually took place are far different things. Have you studied combat reports to see exactly how many shells it took to sink a 2000-ton merchant? A 7000-tonner? 14,000?

As to "armored ships", that is not true. The best shell made for the 5" U.S. naval guns was the HC, or high-capacity round. It was designed to pierce concrete bunkers in shore bombardment, and would certainly go through a 1/2" hull (which is standard on most destroyers as well as merchants merchants) with no problem. BUT, the bursting charge was about 7-8 pounds of explosive, and it would take quite a few to make a real ship go down ("real" being as opposed to something like a sampan). And they wouldn't begin to penetrate the 4" armored belt carried by most light cruisers.

So the game has the rate of fire right - for perfect target-practice conditions. Beery did a lot of research to get his ROF, and while many people (including myself) disagree, and everyone is welcome to play the way they see fit, he did it that way for a perfectly good reason.

10-03-07, 09:04 PM

glad to hear you fixed it.

captiandon · 10-03-07, 09:58 PM

I guess your right there steve. By no means am I trying to put down what beery has done with it. The thing about mods is that they are made the way the person making them feel things should be. Real Fleet Boat is a very good mod and by no means do I not like it. I know that he put alot of work in his mod and I appreciate it. If i were a Sub commander I would have pushed my crew to have the highest rate possable with accuracy. But I would have also be one who closed in to make aiming easer for the crew. Within 1000 yards is the only time I use it and normaly when I have already hit the target with a torpedo or to. I only use the Gun to finish what I have started and only when I can be assured that the threat to my own boat is almost non existant. that keeps my tonnage down to levels that would be more to what a real commander would have had. I rarely attack a convoy on the surface unless I have sunk all the ships that have deck guns of there own. I prefer sinking ships with torpedos. and that limits how many ships I can sink. I can compleat a patrol and if I sunk only one ship I am happy.

09-30-07, 12:31 AM	#1
captiandon Soundman Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 148 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	RFB Deck Gun Shooting Blanks? I was shooting this ship at point blank range, and nothing. I put several armor Piercing rounds thru his engine room and nothing. I should have shot his rudder off with just two rounds. Nothing. I thought this was supposed to be realistic. I do like all the other aspects of the Mod but man does it have some flaws as far as the deck gun. Reload times are slow. I watched video of guys loading a gun in WW2 and they loaded much faster than this. I coudnt make a dent in this ship after fireing over 50 shells at point blank range. I guess I should just pass him my mail and leave.

10-01-07, 05:00 PM	#6
Digital_Trucker Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Peach State Posts: 4,171 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 10	I may be wrong, but..... at point blank range, can you even hit below the waterline? I don't think you can lower the gun enough to hit below the waterline if you are extremely close to the target. __________________ RSM-GIEP-Killflags-LV Tribute-Playable Elco __Peace be with you, Dave.

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09-30-07, 12:48 AM	#3
captiandon Soundman Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 148 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yep I do know how to shoot it, Sorry Beery if I sound like I am ranting I do like your addon its great but its just the deck gun should be more effective than this shouldnt it? I Blew off all the live boats and his anti aircraft guns and still didnt even get a fire to light up on deck. I have gone thru about half my shells and havent made a dent. one would think that I could at that range after putting a few shells thru his engines would have atleast slowed him down. Those Merchants were not armored. Heck the Titantic only took a few small holes to sink it. I was wondering if there is a way I can regain atleast half of the deck guns effectiveness. Heck I did most of that dammage with the AA guns.

10-01-07, 02:48 PM	#5
Fish40 The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yonkers, NY U.S.A. Posts: 1,507 Downloads: 154 Uploads: 0	Not to sound like a smartass or something, but you were aiming below the waterline right? You could shoot a hundred shells at point blank range, and have the whole ship ablaze, but if there is no damage below the waterline, that baby aint going down. As for the deckgun rate of fire, this has been covered a million times. I happen to use RFB as well, and I must say that Beery has gone to great lengths to ensure that the ROF is as accurate as could be expected in a COMBAT situation. Alot of research was done on this, and from what I could tell, nobody has shown it to be otherwise.

10-02-07, 01:49 PM	#8
captiandon Soundman Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 148 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Ya I was watching the Videos that came with the game and they said that it was a rapid fire deck gun and you could see clearly in one shot that they did alot of dammage to one ship with just one shell. Three rounds per min is way to slow. A revlotionary War 24 pounder could make 2 rounds a min and that was a muzzle loader on the USS Constitution. Were talking about a Gun with self containing shells that are breach loaded here and were firing at rates and damage factors of less then the old 24 pounders.

10-02-07, 03:41 PM	#9
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	the slow rof was due to the shells below deck having to be handed up onto deck for the gun crew to load and you can understand that dropping one could be messy. most times they were waiting for ammo so having shells ready on deck they could fire faster but not getting shells from below deck in a steady fire situation.

10-02-07, 03:58 PM	#10
captiandon Soundman Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 148 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Ya but should it take the entire stash of shells just to sink one ship. Firing close in should be devistating attack at any rate. Were talking about both rof and damage. Rate on the deck gun was 10 shells per min and that was the 5 inch. I was reading that shells were kept in water proof boxes near the gun, with extra shells stored below. In the Video they had several crew working the gun not just the two gunners. In Real battle situations they would want to get the shells there as fast as possable. "Some" safty is trown aside when sinking a ship is priority. Besides on the video the rate seemed to be a bit higher when they were firing an that was just in gunnery pratice not in war situation. A shell every 10 seconds would be more like the rate I would expect which would be a rate of 6 per min. I dont think that would be unachiveable. As far as Damage one would expect that when firing at a ship and hitting several locations over a ship would be really devistating to a thin skinned Merchant. These shells were designed for aromored ships so they would be very effective against the merchants.

10-02-07, 04:30 PM	#11
captiandon Soundman Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 148 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	What files where modified so I know what to replace on the deck gun? I guess the solution is replace what I dont like with the orignals.

10-03-07, 06:40 PM	#12
captiandon Soundman Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 148 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Never mind I fixed it. I made a second install of Silent Hunter and took out the deck gun files and replaced them, works fine now. I think that the stock gun files are as accurate as one can get. I also found that a less expiranced Gun crew fires slower so maby one would put a less expirenced crew with the stock settings you can get the resoult that your looking for.

10-03-07, 09:04 PM	#14
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	glad to hear you fixed it.

10-03-07, 09:58 PM	#15
captiandon Soundman Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 148 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I guess your right there steve. By no means am I trying to put down what beery has done with it. The thing about mods is that they are made the way the person making them feel things should be. Real Fleet Boat is a very good mod and by no means do I not like it. I know that he put alot of work in his mod and I appreciate it. If i were a Sub commander I would have pushed my crew to have the highest rate possable with accuracy. But I would have also be one who closed in to make aiming easer for the crew. Within 1000 yards is the only time I use it and normaly when I have already hit the target with a torpedo or to. I only use the Gun to finish what I have started and only when I can be assured that the threat to my own boat is almost non existant. that keeps my tonnage down to levels that would be more to what a real commander would have had. I rarely attack a convoy on the surface unless I have sunk all the ships that have deck guns of there own. I prefer sinking ships with torpedos. and that limits how many ships I can sink. I can compleat a patrol and if I sunk only one ship I am happy.