ASROC non pinging torpedos or IA problem

[UglyMowgli]

It appear that the SSN15, stallion and SSN27 torpedo didn't ping when they acquire a sub or the IA active intercept didn't detect the pinging weapons.

Oko seawolf was sunk twice with SSN-15 and he didn't had any active intercept alert from the IA, just the hit of the torpedo as clue of a tracking weapon in his six.

Did any other have the same problem?

[TLAM Strike]

Were the torpedoes in the target's Active Intercept Baffles?

[Amizaur]

I hear pinging of Subroc torps most every MP game... so everything seems OK.
What is a problem is that they should have much shorter aquision ranges than heavy torpedos. They have smaller dimensions and smaller seekers with MUCH lower range in reality (about 1500m for Mk-46).
Currently all torpedos have seeker range of 2.5nm. For ASW and SUBROC dropped torps separate sensor should be made with range of about 1nm (1.5nm for Mk-50).

[OKO]

there is really a ping problem with some ASW missiles :
stallion, SSN-27 and starfish.
most of them can be heard, but sometimes there is one of them totally silenced (say 1 for 6 to 8):
no spike on active intercept and no ping sound.
this result in a very stealth torpedo you just can see if you are watching you sonar.
As I play many MP games, it's not a speculation, it is just a fact.

Of course, evading this silenced torpedo is almost impossible, as you have to know there is torpedo to evade, and you usually know it by the ping sound.
To avoid this silenced torpedo, you need to stick to the sonar.
You will hear each asw missile falling in the water (torpedo in the water bearing XXX) but you are unsure you will hear the torpedo pinging you ...
this problem happen ONLY in MP games, it is like some of these ASW missile just don't send active information when they enter into water, in some case.

quite nasty ...

[OKO]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Were the torpedoes in the target's Active Intercept Baffles?

target intercept baffles is 360°
all around the ship, no shadow zone, on each sub.

[Kapitan]

It appear that the SSN17, stallion and SSH27 torpedo

huh??? what are these never heard of these weapons before

starters the stallion missile is designated SS-N-16

and the updated version is called SS-N-27

are these what you mean ?

SSN-15

SS-N-15 sampson is not modeled in DW for some reason

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Kapitain

SS-N-15 sampson is not modeled in DW for some reason

The SS-N-15 is the Starfish ASW missile, the Sampson is the SS-N-21 land attack missile.

[Kapitan]

haha lol yep thats true got that wrong again lol

[Amizaur]

Originally Posted by OKO

there is really a ping problem with some ASW missiles :
stallion, SSN-27 and starfish.
most of them can be heard, but sometimes there is one of them totally silenced (say 1 for 6 to 8):
no spike on active intercept and no ping sound.
this result in a very stealth torpedo you just can see if you are watching you sonar.
As I play many MP games, it's not a speculation, it is just a fact.

Well if you are sure, then maybe it's really something... Checking this would be not easy because debugoutput doesn't work in MP so it's hard to say what the torpedo is really doing... But some test may be done in MP with showtruth on to observe behaviour of such torps.
Maybe they are just passive torps ? Maybe sometimes for unknown reason passive mode is set to SUBROC torpedo ? Would this explain what you have observed ? Fixing this would be quite easy by doctrines or by removing passive sensor from SUBROC dropped torps.
As I said this could be tested by making some kind of workaround for lack of debugoutput in MP game. For example modyfing doctrines to make torpedo doing some kind of maneuver depending on what sensor it used to detect it's target, then the maneuvers could be observed in show truth on.

Of course, evading this silenced torpedo is almost impossible, as you have to know there is torpedo to evade, and you usually know it by the ping sound.

I'm not 100% sure but think that real life SUBROC torpedos can have passive mode set to be used first, then when no contact is detected - switches to active mode. So one passive SUBROC for 6 or 7 actives would be in some way realistic. I'm sure that Russian APR2 and APR3 rocket-torps works in this mode. Search in passive, and if there is no target enabling active.

in MP games, it is like some of these ASW missile just don't send active information when they enter into water, in some case.

Maybe they are just passives (for unknown reason) ?

target intercept baffles is 360°
all around the ship, no shadow zone, on each sub.

I've been killed many times in Kilo with active torp dropped from helo exactly behind me with no warning from active intercept, so though that there is shadow zone in the rear. Just checked in database and active intercept sensors used on playable subs work in +/-150 degrees cone (exactly like active sonar) so there is 60 degrees dead zone in the back. Probably not realistic because AI sensors are mounted on rear side of the sail to cover this zone... But in game AI coverage is not 360deg.

[Ula Jolly]

Concerning TIW and blind zone:

I have had a torpedo dropped in my head which I did not get TIW on, while others have had torpedoes in the head which they HAVE had TIWs on. The reason for why I did not hear the torp in my head could have been that the helicopter was located a few metres/inches into my blind area, while others may have had the chopper within their "sight".

Oh, and by the way!!
I once had a torpedo launched at me which was not alarmed by TIW before about three to five seconds had passed.

[Kapitan]

lol :rotfl:

[Fish]

Originally Posted by OKO

target intercept baffles is 360°
all around the ship, no shadow zone, on each sub.

I know you couldn't hear active torps at your rear in SC, as far as I know it's the same in DW.
I got killed yesterday by a asrcock wat landed in my rear, never hear it before I died.

[XabbaRus]

Yep AI does have a blind spot...

Don't know if this is realistic or not but dead behind it won't pick anything up.

[JoGary(sco)]

DW does have blind spot on AI. Try evading a active torp. You can hear it when it comming from front or sides but when you turn so it behind you the pinging stops. The torp is still active it just it now in the blind spot.