Forget about Bungo Pete and fear...

[Spraug]

...the Psycho-Haruna!

This is another of the weird encounter posts. In the fourth war patrol of my current I had the order to patrol the Makassar Strait and I circled off Balikpapan. After a bit of a chase I managed to disassemble a Nippon Maru and another ship (Momoyama Maru, I believe) and was already a bit low on torpedoes (duds, duds, duds,...) when I encountered another tanker: a small Haruna Maru. Small vessel and few fish left called for surface action, so called my gun crew to their stations, and surfaced.

While I'm an aggressive skipper when it comes to the choice of attacking or not, I make sure I don't get too overconfident, so I always dive deep after a torpedo attack and I always stay at least 2'500m away during surface engagements (unless heavy fog) and at least 3'500m on the surface if the target has heavy guns.

So, as per modus operandi, I engage at about 4'000m and slowly get closer, as soon as I confirm that they don't have heavy weapons. It works very nicely until I reach around 3'500m. Suddenly all hell breaks lose in the form of 20mm fire. I get hit almost immediately and damage reports are called out, so I have the boat turn around at flank speed to put distance between us again. This takes maybe 3 Minutes and in this time frame the Psycho-Haruna pours magazine after magazine into my poor little boat. Judging by the tracers coming in and the sound of splashes and metal hits, I guess that the freaks hit with about 75%-80% of their shots AT 3 AND 1/2 KILOMETERS and cause 22% hull damage, several bulkhead breaches and internal damage!!!

Eventually slip beyond their range and sink the bloody monster. While I'm usually happy when I see survivors in boats I'm a bit torn this time. One half of me wants the gunner to survive so I can recommend him for a medal and get him to train our crews after the war. The other half of me is worried what happens if the give him Buzyun Maru and let him spearhead the Japanese attack during the invasion of the Marianas!!!

Anyway, I try to limp back to port when I get a Flash Message of a large convoy in the Celebes Sea. What can I do???? With a heavy heart and a lot of foreboding I decide to investigate and direct in reinforcements. Since I don't dare to dive deep I can only make one half-hearted attack at maximum range from periscope depth. The fish miss, of course and I get destroyer company. Through blind luck one of the defensive shots manages to sink the closest destroyer as I slip aways to the south. Most of my crew - including my humble self - is probably already on anti-anxiety medication, so I call it a day and return to port after something like 25 days with a boat shot to pieces and "only" four kills (that would have been amazing during the war, but obviously isn't in the game).

Fortunately my previous patrols were pretty good (ran into two slow, unescorted Takao Class cruisers during the invasion of Celebes ), so instead of the boot, they give me another boat. All is well that ends well, I guess, but I guarantee you that I will - very carefully - make it my devoted duty to sink every single Haruna Maru for the rest of this career!!!!

[TorpX]

I've had the same thing happen to me. I was wondering if this sort of thing only happened with RFB.

Those 20mm guns are very sinister; they're big enough to sink your boat, but small enough that you don't see them.

[Spraug]

Interesting. Considering the different mods we're running (I've never played RFB), it may be in the original game. If enemy crew works like the boat crew, it may be that the game just randomly came up with someone with gunnery 90% or something.

I guess it's realistic that 20mm are dangerous, but to be honest I've never had any success with my 20mm or even 40mm on enemy ships. Since I never go up against planes, they are just very useless to me.

Still 3'500m ... just imagine what this guy can do to airplanes that are much more fragile.

[rein1705]

Hey fellas. greetings from the S-26.
i play TMO 2.6 and I've ran across freighters armed to the teeth
and,to within varying digress their good shots.
I've had my boat shot up a few times by charging in too close to a Maru.
Check out this German Q-Ship i found in the Sulu sea. Though she was obviously armed with deck guns.a...

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Spraug

I guess it's realistic that 20mm are dangerous, but to be honest I've never had any success with my 20mm or even 40mm on enemy ships. Since I never go up against planes, they are just very useless to me.

Imo, 20mm, or other small caliber guns have exaggerated capabilities in the game. They should be dangerous in the sense they can kill personnel and damage things, but they should not be able to tear our boats apart.

If I were doing a major rework of the game, uber artillery would be on my short list of things to change. If small caliber shells were so effective, cruisers wouldn't need 6 or 8 inch guns.

However, there are limitations in the game models which make a realistic simulation of these things difficult. As you found out, shells do not loose the ability to penetrate targets at longer range. I'm not sure if Japanese merchantmen had AP 20mm ammunition, or not. Seems questionable to me.

I guess I can forgive Ubisoft for not putting too much effort into guns and ballistics, in a submarine game, but the situation is not ideal.

[Admiral Halsey]

I'd suggest just nuking AA gun damage altogether but then you have to mess with the planes armor otherwise you're never gonna knock any of them out of the sky.

[TorpX]

Well, I understand what the RFB team wanted to do. Skippers should be deterred from sailing through a storm of 20mm fire. Otoh, a handful of small shells should not trash your sub. There has to be a middle ground where they can disable/damage/wound, but not really sink your boat. I think they went too far. Not sure exactly how to fix it.

In the meantime, I give armed ships a wide berth.

[Armistead]

I came on a armed sampan hitting me with machine gun fire, before I knew it getting mass damage, damn near sunk me before I got him sunk

[TorpX]

Did he have 20mm guns, or something smaller?

In any case, I believe it. I've had 2 S-boat careers terminated this way. Not fun!

[Spraug]

Reading your stories, I realize I actually got away lucky.

[Hambone307]

Lost my USS- Thresher (Tambor class) to two armed sampans last week. Got up to make lunch and forgot to pause game. While making lunch, our fire department got called out to a car wreck. I came back about an hour later to find my boat almost standing up vertically, multiple bulkheads and other equipment destroyed, half my crew dead, critical flooding in most compartments, and those two sampans plugging away at me...

[Spraug]

Originally Posted by Hambone307

Lost my USS- Thresher (Tambor class) to two armed sampans last week. Got up to make lunch and forgot to pause game. While making lunch, our fire department got called out to a car wreck. I came back about an hour later to find my boat almost standing up vertically, multiple bulkheads and other equipment destroyed, half my crew dead, critical flooding in most compartments, and those two sampans plugging away at me...

WOW! Those sampans shot up your sub, a car and your lunch? That's really... wow, my deepest sympathy.

[Hambone307]

LOL! I didn't think those sampans could mess up a fleet boat that bad. I knew they had small arms on them, but never actually sat there and let them shoot me! I appreciate the sympathy Spraug!

[rein1705]

that poor poor lunch....

[swdw]

20mm are not as weak as you'd think.

Something to think about. The HMCS Assinbone was in a running gun duel with a U-boat in the fog. So she had to get in close to use her guns. She wound up ramming the U-boat because the destroyer was being torn apart by the 20mm anti-aircraft guns and had to do something to end the engagement.

A couple of quotes from the book "The Necessary War."

"The submarine's 20mm flak gun shells raked the destroyer, causing significant damage."

"Allen Riley, a radio operator experiencing his first battle, recounted the shock of feeling the U-boat shells tearing through the ship"

The biggest problem in SH4 is the accuracy of the Japanese gunners. Sometimes you'd swear they are using laser guided ammo