French schools

Skybird · 06-03-13, 05:22 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22729780

I like the concept. I would like to see it in German schools: mandatory philosophy courses. I would like religion courses being skipped, and their dimension relevant for history being included in - expanded - history courses instead.

I would also make chess a mandatory course.

Philosophy makes can teach you to think beyond the how, and about the why. Chess can teach you to think precise and disciplined and still: creative.

Finally, I would make IT a mandatory course. It is that in only three of the sixteen German federal states, I read (and could't believe it).

Cybermat47 · 06-03-13, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

mandatory philosophy courses.

But Skybird, surely that's just a fascist zionist/islamic/christian/buddhist/hindu/atheist/agnostic (choose your favourite) plot to control our minds and make us into Turkish people!

Skybird · 06-03-13, 06:26 AM

Pardon...!?

Hottentot · 06-03-13, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Pardon...!?

He's making fun of you.

Herr-Berbunch · 06-03-13, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I like the concept. I would like to see it in German schools: mandatory philosophy courses. I would like religion courses being skipped, and their dimension relevant for history being included in - expanded - history courses instead.

My wife teaches philosophy, ethics, and religion - and the way she teaches it is amazing, if she can teach the kids young enough they want to get a qualification in it rather than just drop it like everyone used to.

When I was at school religious studies was copying verbatim from textbooks about christianity, some jewish stuff, and maybe a lesson on islam. Copy text and maybe colour in a jewish candlestick thing - not the way to learn.

Now my wife gets the naughtiest kids in school wanting to do her lessons, which astounds all the other teachers, and they thrive in them. It's all discussion based, and especially with philosophy the kids organise themselves and everyone partakes.

She even gets the Jehovah's Witnesses to stay in the lessons, with their parents permission. For some reason JWs are allowed to skip these lessons even though everyone else is legally obliged to attend.

She's not religious in any way and I think it's better this way to give a broad spectrum of religions with no bias, and also include atheism/agnostic to the mix.

So, religion should stay on the curriculum, but it just needs to be taught correctly.

Skybird · 06-03-13, 07:41 AM

As I said, the historical side of things should be taught at school, yes - in history classes which should slightly increase in volume. But I think religion's teachings any differently taught than as a pure academic overview over the basic concept should have no place in public school run by the state and funded by general taxes. It's that secularism thing, you see. Like I think no political or religious or nationalistic oaths and pledges should be part of public schooling as well.

At my time (until mid 80s), we did not have any courses on philosophy and/or ethics at all. I filled that lack myself later, due to high interest of mine. But I always considered the curriculum to be lacking something most important there. At best we were told that there was a guy named Kant and that he was born in this year, lived in that town, and died in that year. That is useless info. I do not care much for when Mozart lived as long as I am not engaging in any talking or debate where the time context plays a role - I listen to the music, and that is the real important part.

But we had - quite exotic at that time - astronomy courses, two semesters. Great fun, and nice opportunity for me to score maximum in notes.

All in all I have good memories of my schooltime, I liked especially from 7th class on (complete Berlin Gymnasium time). But it seems to me we belonged to one of the last lucky and happy age-groups. At the end of the 80s, the big experimenting began, and from then on schools turned out to become worse and worse and worse. Would not like to go to school in the present anymore if I were young again.

Penguin · 06-03-13, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

My wife teaches philosophy, ethics, and religion

Are these 3 different classes or is it one?

Imo religion shouldn't be taught speparately, but it makes sense to include religion into a philosophy class. Philosophies/values based on religious teachings are still what fuels the ethics of billions, so religion should definitely not be excluded.

Oh yeah, in before "non religious persons teaching religion is like blind people teaching painting"

- ideas like this would make it pretty hard to find people who teach about the Neanderthals

the_tyrant · 06-03-13, 07:50 AM

I would actually say political science instead.

There are so many political masters in every language, and it really helps. I mean, just with the Germans there is Bismarck, Marx, Engels, and so on.

Also, a healthy heaping The Art of War and On War can't hurt either.

Sailor Steve · 06-03-13, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

So, religion should stay on the curriculum, but it just needs to be taught correctly.

That's because she's teaching about religion, as opposed to teaching a religion.

Herr-Berbunch · 06-03-13, 09:47 AM

True, Steve.

I think the lessons are separate subjects (I should listen more!) but they ultimately are all entwined. She'll teach about abortion, for instance, but goes through where the major religions, and secular points of view stand. There's sometimes a girl in the class who's had one, if that's the case then my wife will discuss beforehand if the girl wants to stay in the lesson, and if so then she gets her point across - as I said before there is a lot of discussion (less marking!) and one of the first things the kids 'get' is that everyone has a point of view that is worthy of listening to. The kids finally understand why so-and-so runs straight home, he has an absent mother, and alcoholic father, and two younger siblings to care for - the examples are, unfortunately, many.

Catfish · 06-03-13, 11:49 AM

I think you cannot study phlosophy without knowing anything about religion(s).
Whether just of all religious lessons at school teach you the important things about religion, is another thing ...

Skybird · 06-03-13, 01:03 PM

Steve brought it to the point: teaching about and teaching a religion are two different things. Teaching about religion should however not be a separate course, but just one part in a more general course like ethics&philosophy, since ethical and and philosophical traditions and schools already were there before the forming of today'S existing major monotheistic dogma, and cover a far greater field in - historical relevant - matter. I mean in a school curriculum there is not enough time to just give everything its own weekly classes. We have in general physics, therefore, and not one course on Newton, one on Planck, and one on general physics. Also there cannot be one course on Kant, one on Descartes, one on let's Epiktet and one on monotheism - additionally to the rest of philosophy, which is not really poor in names and schools to be mentioned.

06-03-13, 05:22 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	French schools http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22729780 I like the concept. I would like to see it in German schools: mandatory philosophy courses. I would like religion courses being skipped, and their dimension relevant for history being included in - expanded - history courses instead. I would also make chess a mandatory course. Philosophy makes can teach you to think beyond the how, and about the why. Chess can teach you to think precise and disciplined and still: creative. Finally, I would make IT a mandatory course. It is that in only three of the sixteen German federal states, I read (and could't believe it). __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-03-13, 06:26 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Pardon...!? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-03-13, 07:41 AM	#6
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	As I said, the historical side of things should be taught at school, yes - in history classes which should slightly increase in volume. But I think religion's teachings any differently taught than as a pure academic overview over the basic concept should have no place in public school run by the state and funded by general taxes. It's that secularism thing, you see. Like I think no political or religious or nationalistic oaths and pledges should be part of public schooling as well. At my time (until mid 80s), we did not have any courses on philosophy and/or ethics at all. I filled that lack myself later, due to high interest of mine. But I always considered the curriculum to be lacking something most important there. At best we were told that there was a guy named Kant and that he was born in this year, lived in that town, and died in that year. That is useless info. I do not care much for when Mozart lived as long as I am not engaging in any talking or debate where the time context plays a role - I listen to the music, and that is the real important part. But we had - quite exotic at that time - astronomy courses, two semesters. Great fun, and nice opportunity for me to score maximum in notes. All in all I have good memories of my schooltime, I liked especially from 7th class on (complete Berlin Gymnasium time). But it seems to me we belonged to one of the last lucky and happy age-groups. At the end of the 80s, the big experimenting began, and from then on schools turned out to become worse and worse and worse. Would not like to go to school in the present anymore if I were young again. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-03-13, 07:50 AM	#8
the_tyrant Admiral Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 2,272 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	I would actually say political science instead. There are so many political masters in every language, and it really helps. I mean, just with the Germans there is Bismarck, Marx, Engels, and so on. Also, a healthy heaping The Art of War and On War can't hurt either. __________________ My own open source project on Sourceforge OTP.net KGB grade encryption for the rest of us

06-03-13, 09:47 AM	#10
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	True, Steve. I think the lessons are separate subjects (I should listen more!) but they ultimately are all entwined. She'll teach about abortion, for instance, but goes through where the major religions, and secular points of view stand. There's sometimes a girl in the class who's had one, if that's the case then my wife will discuss beforehand if the girl wants to stay in the lesson, and if so then she gets her point across - as I said before there is a lot of discussion (less marking!) and one of the first things the kids 'get' is that everyone has a point of view that is worthy of listening to. The kids finally understand why so-and-so runs straight home, he has an absent mother, and alcoholic father, and two younger siblings to care for - the examples are, unfortunately, many. __________________

06-03-13, 11:49 AM	#11
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I think you cannot study phlosophy without knowing anything about religion(s). Whether just of all religious lessons at school teach you the important things about religion, is another thing ...

06-03-13, 01:03 PM	#12
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Steve brought it to the point: teaching *about* and teaching a religion are two different things. Teaching about religion should however not be a separate course, but just one part in a more general course like ethics&philosophy, since ethical and and philosophical traditions and schools already were there before the forming of today'S existing major monotheistic dogma, and cover a far greater field in - historical relevant - matter. I mean in a school curriculum there is not enough time to just give everything its own weekly classes. We have in general physics, therefore, and not one course on Newton, one on Planck, and one on general physics. Also there cannot be one course on Kant, one on Descartes, one on let's Epiktet and one on monotheism - additionally to the rest of philosophy, which is not really poor in names and schools to be mentioned. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.