[TEC] Basic manual TDC tutorial

Bilge_Rat · 03-07-10, 02:28 PM

Bilge Rat’s basic manual TDC tutorial

This is a simple tutorial showing how to use manual TDC with map updates “on” using only the in game info and tools. Having map updates on provides you with the position, course and speed of the target ship and simplifies the process of learning manual TDC.

1. Here I have locked on to a target and my XO gives me an estimated solution (ship ID, bearing, range, speed, AOB). We now have to refine the numbers to come up with the “right” solution. The bearing is usually correct and does not have to be changed.

2. Let’s now switch to the TAI map view and start getting some info on our target. When you click on the target, you see that it is a merchant moving at a speed of 7 knots.

3. when you zoom in closer on the map, we can see it is moving due east and by using the ruler to measure the distance, you can see that it will come within 600 meters of our sub, which simplifies our task.

4. It is still too far away to finalize all the numbers, but there are some preliminary things you should do early in the process. I have decided to fire 2 torpedoes so I set the speed of both tubes (I and II) to “fast” and the pistol to “impact”.

5. We are now ready to start perfecting the solution. First, since we know the correct speed, we will set it in the TDC. Click on speed in the solution which will bring you to the following menu. Click on the number shown and then use the right or left arrows to increase or decrease speed in 2 knot increments or, simply type in the correct speed. Click on “Back” directly below which brings you back to the solution. The other numbers in the solution can be modified in a similar manner.

6. Next we will identify the ship.

7. when the target is at the point where you want to launch the torpedoes, PAUSE the game and we will plug in the missing numbers.

8. to get the range, press TAB to expand the TAI map. You can then use the ruler to measure the distance from the center of your sub to the center of the target. This gives us a result of 950 meters. You can doublecheck this against the map which shows a distance of 961 meters. This small discrepancy will not have an impact considering the close range.

9. to get the AOB, use the protactor to measure from your sub to the target and out following the course of the target. This gives us a AOB of 43 degrees.

10. while keeping the game paused, go back to your scope and plug in the “range” and “AOB” in the solution. You may have to unpause briefly and repause to get the AOB to update. Check to make sure the AOB is on the correct side, starboard if the target is going left to right across your screen and port if it is moving right to left.

11. As you can see, our solution now shows all the correct info: ship ID, bearing, range, speed, AOB. Now that the correct solution has been entered, you can aim and fire at specific parts of the ship.

12. unpause and fire. Here I aimed the first torpedo just before the island and the second right after. Remember that when the correct solution is entered, you are aiming where the torpedoes will be when they intersect the course of the ship and not where the ship is now. To be safe or if using only one torpedo, aim at the center of the ship.

13. result: two torpedo hits and one more allied freighter heading to Davey Jone’s locker.

In a second, more advanced tutorial, we will see how to determine the position, course and speed of a target with map updates “off”.

Good hunting!

link to PDF file

http://www.filefront.com/15797153/TDC_tutorial.rar/

Furia · 03-07-10, 02:45 PM

Nicely explained.
I have not thought about using the proctator to calculate the AOB. Nice stuff!.
Thanks

nikulin · 03-07-10, 02:49 PM

Waiting for second tutorial.
How to get range when stadimeter lies

Maltro · 03-07-10, 05:27 PM

Intersting thread for beginners to SH5. Thanks for them. I am interesting by manual targeting with contacts off.
As nikullin tell us, stadimeter give me strange results... Maybe we should look at the distance beetween floating line and top of the chimney and not at the top of the mast as we were habituated to do.
This measure looks right when I compared it to the distance the ruler gives me. I remember in SH4, there was a mod which tell us to do like this (and to don't take care about the top of the mast. In this way, results were ok as if the target is not at 90 degrees as the sub).

What are you thinking about?

danizzz · 03-07-10, 06:40 PM

Maybe im a noob but when i fire the torpedo i dont get that torpedo camera on the left side of the screen (i think the event camera....).
What do i have to activate for that camera?
Thanks!

JamesT73J · 03-07-10, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maltro

Intersting thread for beginners to SH5. Thanks for them. I am interesting by manual targeting with contacts off.
As nikullin tell us, stadimeter give me strange results... Maybe we should look at the distance beetween floating line and top of the chimney and not at the top of the mast as we were habituated to do.
This measure looks right when I compared it to the distance the ruler gives me. I remember in SH4, there was a mod which tell us to do like this (and to don't take care about the top of the mast. In this way, results were ok as if the target is not at 90 degrees as the sub).

What are you thinking about?

I think 'contacts off' in the SH games is pretty hard work, and I come from Dangerous Waters / Sub Command

Too many deficiencies in the usability of plotting tools, for a start. Simply being able to mark targets from the scope/UZO ("bearing...THAT..range...THAT" etc, without going to the map view and drawing them yourself) would make such a massive difference. Then there is the issue of continued observation; once you id and range a target the plot should really update automatically (you'd have a man / team doing this in reality) In SC/DW when you have a contact, you give it speed/heading attributes and it plots itself until you update it. I'm quite happy leaving updates on in the case of the SH games, it is a lot for one dude to do.

The stadimeter seems procedurally easier than SH3's, but gives pretty inconsistent results.

Maltro · 03-08-10, 02:08 AM

Danniz, if you put the event camera on, realism % will dicrease and you won't have as much reward point at the end of a patrol as if you would turn it off.

Stadimeter seems to bug. I am going to verify my theorie about top of chimney and will tell you. In real life, what are we supposed to do ? Choose the top of the mast or the top of chimney? I have a doubt now...

Bilge_Rat · 03-08-10, 09:14 AM

Thanks for all the comments. It is important to pool and disseminate this info since the game manual is so sparse on these essential details.

There have been many threads on whether map contacts "on" or "off" is more realistic, since one gives you too much info and the other too little. Since it is a single player game, I view this as being simply a matter of personal taste.

The most that can be said is that map contacts "off" is more work, more difficult, but ultimately more satisfying when you get a kill.

The only obstacle in using map contacts "off" in the present state of the game is the lack of info on how to properly use the stadimeter. Measuring from the waterline to the top of the mast as in stock SH4 gives you the wrong range in SH5. In some cases, the top of the funnel gives you the correct range, sometimes its the bridge deck. Hopefully, this issue will be resolved soon.

Ultimately, as we become more familiar with the game, we can do as the real Kaleuns did and shoot by "eye".

Turm · 03-10-10, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikulin

Waiting for second tutorial.
How to get range when stadimeter lies

Same here

From the tutorial mission alone, I found that one ship required me to use the top of the funnels, and another to use the top of the masts. And one ship was somewhat inaccurate no matter what reference point I used... (like a 200m error when it was only 1km away).

As has been said, the position of the horizontal marking on the scope doesn't matter as it did in SH3. You could be in the heaviest of seas and still use the stadimeter with good accuracy - if only it worked as it should. I've been waiting for this feature since SH3! (Didn't get SH4) Still waiting

Speaking of manual calculations, I need to find myself a nomograph to print out. Easier than adding one to the SH5 map. Anybody have any links to hand? I'll go pay Google a visit in the mean time.

ERPP8 · 03-07-10, 06:43 PM

No offense but it's more like "Cheater's guide to manual TDC"

Rob1986 · 01-02-11, 05:48 PM

Hi, I'm new to this forum and the game, and wanted to firstly say thanks for the tutorial, trying to get into manual targetting since the old days of easy SH3 firing are long gone! Prob a noob snag,but when i enter the angle on the bow according to your calculation it always resets to zero, or defaults to whatever my watch officer thinks. this means my eels always head for the ship now rather than where it will be.am i just being a fail?
thanks

voss · 01-03-11, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob1986

Hi, I'm new to this forum and the game, and wanted to firstly say thanks for the tutorial, trying to get into manual targetting since the old days of easy SH3 firing are long gone! Prob a noob snag,but when i enter the angle on the bow according to your calculation it always resets to zero, or defaults to whatever my watch officer thinks. this means my eels always head for the ship now rather than where it will be.am i just being a fail?
thanks

Not your fail. This is a known issue. I believe the AOB is reset every time you update the other information in the TDC. It needs to be the last bit of data you enter.

Happy hunting!

TheDarkWraith · 01-03-11, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voss

Not your fail. This is a known issue. I believe the AOB is reset every time you update the other information in the TDC. It needs to be the last bit of data you enter.

Happy hunting!

If using my UIs mod you can prevent that from happening by clicking the red buttons attached to the TDC dials

Rob1986 · 01-03-11, 01:37 PM

Ok this really will be a fail,where can I get this and how do I install it?thanks

Bilge_Rat · 01-24-11, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voss

Not your fail. This is a known issue. I believe the AOB is reset every time you update the other information in the TDC. It needs to be the last bit of data you enter.

Happy hunting!

that is correct, in the stock game, you have to enter AOB last to get an accurate solution.

03-07-10, 02:28 PM	#1
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,855 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	[TEC] Basic manual TDC tutorial Bilge Rat’s basic manual TDC tutorial This is a simple tutorial showing how to use manual TDC with map updates “on” using only the in game info and tools. Having map updates on provides you with the position, course and speed of the target ship and simplifies the process of learning manual TDC. 1. Here I have locked on to a target and my XO gives me an estimated solution (ship ID, bearing, range, speed, AOB). We now have to refine the numbers to come up with the “right” solution. The bearing is usually correct and does not have to be changed. 2. Let’s now switch to the TAI map view and start getting some info on our target. When you click on the target, you see that it is a merchant moving at a speed of 7 knots. 3. when you zoom in closer on the map, we can see it is moving due east and by using the ruler to measure the distance, you can see that it will come within 600 meters of our sub, which simplifies our task. 4. It is still too far away to finalize all the numbers, but there are some preliminary things you should do early in the process. I have decided to fire 2 torpedoes so I set the speed of both tubes (I and II) to “fast” and the pistol to “impact”. 5. We are now ready to start perfecting the solution. First, since we know the correct speed, we will set it in the TDC. Click on speed in the solution which will bring you to the following menu. Click on the number shown and then use the right or left arrows to increase or decrease speed in 2 knot increments or, simply type in the correct speed. Click on “Back” directly below which brings you back to the solution. The other numbers in the solution can be modified in a similar manner. 6. Next we will identify the ship. 7. when the target is at the point where you want to launch the torpedoes, PAUSE the game and we will plug in the missing numbers. 8. to get the range, press TAB to expand the TAI map. You can then use the ruler to measure the distance from the center of your sub to the center of the target. This gives us a result of 950 meters. You can doublecheck this against the map which shows a distance of 961 meters. This small discrepancy will not have an impact considering the close range. 9. to get the AOB, use the protactor to measure from your sub to the target and out following the course of the target. This gives us a AOB of 43 degrees. 10. while keeping the game paused, go back to your scope and plug in the “range” and “AOB” in the solution. You may have to unpause briefly and repause to get the AOB to update. Check to make sure the AOB is on the correct side, starboard if the target is going left to right across your screen and port if it is moving right to left. 11. As you can see, our solution now shows all the correct info: ship ID, bearing, range, speed, AOB. Now that the correct solution has been entered, you can aim and fire at specific parts of the ship. 12. unpause and fire. Here I aimed the first torpedo just before the island and the second right after. Remember that when the correct solution is entered, you are aiming where the torpedoes will be when they intersect the course of the ship and not where the ship is now. To be safe or if using only one torpedo, aim at the center of the ship. 13. result: two torpedo hits and one more allied freighter heading to Davey Jone’s locker. In a second, more advanced tutorial, we will see how to determine the position, course and speed of a target with map updates “off”. Good hunting! link to PDF file http://www.filefront.com/15797153/TDC_tutorial.rar/ __________________ Last edited by Bilge_Rat; 03-10-10 at 07:29 PM.

03-07-10, 02:45 PM	#2
Furia Ensign Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 224 Downloads: 95 Uploads: 0	Nicely explained. I have not thought about using the proctator to calculate the AOB. Nice stuff!. Thanks __________________ Peace and freedom are not free.

03-07-10, 05:27 PM	#4
Maltro Soundman Join Date: May 2007 Location: Near Lyon, France Posts: 141 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Intersting thread for beginners to SH5. Thanks for them. I am interesting by manual targeting with contacts off. As nikullin tell us, stadimeter give me strange results... Maybe we should look at the distance beetween floating line and top of the chimney and not at the top of the mast as we were habituated to do. This measure looks right when I compared it to the distance the ruler gives me. I remember in SH4, there was a mod which tell us to do like this (and to don't take care about the top of the mast. In this way, results were ok as if the target is not at 90 degrees as the sub). What are you thinking about? __________________ Erwin Rommel. 1890-1944. La guerre sans haine - War without hate.

03-08-10, 02:08 AM	#7
Maltro Soundman Join Date: May 2007 Location: Near Lyon, France Posts: 141 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Danniz, if you put the event camera on, realism % will dicrease and you won't have as much reward point at the end of a patrol as if you would turn it off. Stadimeter seems to bug. I am going to verify my theorie about top of chimney and will tell you. In real life, what are we supposed to do ? Choose the top of the mast or the top of chimney? I have a doubt now... __________________ Erwin Rommel. 1890-1944. La guerre sans haine - War without hate.

03-08-10, 09:14 AM	#8
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,855 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	Thanks for all the comments. It is important to pool and disseminate this info since the game manual is so sparse on these essential details. There have been many threads on whether map contacts "on" or "off" is more realistic, since one gives you too much info and the other too little. Since it is a single player game, I view this as being simply a matter of personal taste. The most that can be said is that map contacts "off" is more work, more difficult, but ultimately more satisfying when you get a kill. The only obstacle in using map contacts "off" in the present state of the game is the lack of info on how to properly use the stadimeter. Measuring from the waterline to the top of the mast as in stock SH4 gives you the wrong range in SH5. In some cases, the top of the funnel gives you the correct range, sometimes its the bridge deck. Hopefully, this issue will be resolved soon. Ultimately, as we become more familiar with the game, we can do as the real Kaleuns did and shoot by "eye". __________________

03-07-10, 02:49 PM	#3
nikulin Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 7 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	Waiting for second tutorial. How to get range when stadimeter lies

03-07-10, 06:40 PM	#5
danizzz Seaman Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 39 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Maybe im a noob but when i fire the torpedo i dont get that torpedo camera on the left side of the screen (i think the event camera....). What do i have to activate for that camera? Thanks!

03-07-10, 06:43 PM	#10
ERPP8 Commodore Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: My House Posts: 608 Downloads: 161 Uploads: 0	No offense but it's more like "Cheater's guide to manual TDC"

01-02-11, 05:48 PM	#11
Rob1986 Nub Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 3 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Hi, I'm new to this forum and the game, and wanted to firstly say thanks for the tutorial, trying to get into manual targetting since the old days of easy SH3 firing are long gone! Prob a noob snag,but when i enter the angle on the bow according to your calculation it always resets to zero, or defaults to whatever my watch officer thinks. this means my eels always head for the ship now rather than where it will be.am i just being a fail? thanks

01-03-11, 01:37 PM	#14
Rob1986 Nub Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 3 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Ok this really will be a fail,where can I get this and how do I install it?thanks