Power of the machine gun?

[=SE=Sova]

Hello guys.
This is the list of the mods i am usinig:
FX_Update_0_0_19_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_7_1_0_ByTheDarkWraith
Manos Scopes-patch for 16x9
IRAI_0_0_37_ByTheDarkWraith
gap - HD 1 deg Scope Bearing v 1.0
EQuaTool 01.01 by AvM - Kriegsmarine Woody Golden Style
Accurate German Flags
Church's Compass Dials Mod v2.2 - Option Two
Trevally Harbour & Kiel Canal Pilot v2.9
Trevally Automated Scripts v0.6
OPEN HORIZONS II Light v3

I can say exellent work.I like it alot.Water color is great.
I did notice one problem in the game.
I was at periscope depth, 1500 meters from the convoy.Enemy has spoted my periscipe and start to fire with machine gun.I had periscope damage,diesel engine damaged,one oficer hurt,flading,hull damage....

From my military knowlage,macine gun big caliber cant do this.At that distance to penetrate submarine,at that depth.It is OK for deck gun,but not for the machine gun.
Eny opinion?

[Hartmann]

i´m agree

Below water the power of a machine gun is not enough to penetrate the external hull of a submarine. The bullet lost a lot of his energy when hit the water.

The only possible damage could be the periscope , optics and tube because it´s in the surface or not too deep.

But i think that there are some mods that tweak this things

[CaliEs]

3.6 bathtubes per minute will flow into the commando room if a
twisted, damaged periscope has a leak of 1cm in width x 7cm in length.
= 514 litre.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ng#post1919186


All the damages are explainable.

Originally Posted by =SE=Sova

I was at periscope depth, 1500 meters from the convoy.Enemy has spoted my periscipe and start to fire with machine gun.I had periscope damage,diesel engine damaged,one oficer hurt,flading,hull damage....

From my military knowlage,... big caliber cant do this.At that distance to penetrate submarine,at that depth.

[=SE=Sova]

how is it possible to damage diesel engine? I was at 90 degerese with convoy,preparing for fast 90 degrese attack.

[CaliEs]

Water and batteries °) do not get along.
Water and diesels do not get along.

°) to start the diesels

[Hartmann]

It depends of the angle but it´s very difficult for a 50 cal bullet penetrate a pressure hull below water.It means that damages in diesel engines and hull can be very limited.

Mythbusters Shooting 50 Caliber Sniper into Water

[Sailor Steve]

Short but interesting.

[=SE=Sova]

Cant open this video Steve.
Who was talking abouth bateries?

What ever it is,if my periscope is damaged,submarine cant take so much water in 2 seconds thry damaged periscope to reach and damage diesel engines.Even if hull is damaged by machine gun ,submarine cant take so much water so fast to make damage to the diesels.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by =SE=Sova

Cant open this video Steve.

It's a four-second clip of a bullet slowing down as it hits the water, and the pocket of air it drags with it.

No, if you're submerged to periscope depth bullets shouldn't penetrate your pressure hull, and you should take no internal damage.

[Dogfish40]

Originally Posted by CaliEs

Water and batteries °) do not get along.
Water and diesels do not get along.

°) to start the diesels

Originally Posted by Hartmann

It depends of the angle but it´s very difficult for a 50 cal bullet penetrate a pressure hull below water.It means that damages in diesel engines and hull can be very limited.

Mythbusters Shooting 50 Caliber Sniper into Water

Absolutely
Even that caliber ammo will be slowed sufficiently to check hull penetration. Engine damage?? No way!! Even periscope damage is a very lucky hit. It's only an inch or so in width.... A 20mm with AP might do some outer skin damage, as well as tear up the decking some. Even though you stated machine gun, I'm assuming light caliber. Even 50 cal wouldn't get to the engines.
As far as water damage to the engine?? The engines were constantly having leaks repaired (the whole sub for that matter), water in small amounts was not a big threat. Large amounts...yes
This just sounds like a adjustment needs to be made to the game.
On the same note, I used the flak gun on a merchant for the heck of it and tore that ship up. I think it may be FX but pieces were flying off that ship, including lifeboats and auxiliary launches went spinning into the air. Ya gotta' try that sometime, it's very satisfying after a long day at the office.
Cheers
D40

[=SE=Sova]

Yes,lol.It is nice fun to hiting specific places and targets at ship with gun and watching parts falling off.
Flak gun also can make damage to an "light armored" targets,like life boats,trucks,light armored vehicles...
I played this mission again,same conditions.Enemy was very precision with deck machine gun.I have been hit with first tracer.Than second and third.I had few man wounded,heavy flooding,periscope damage,diesel engines damaged,electic motors damaged,main pump damaged,under surface propulsion not funkcional...All that at 2 500 meters distance.
It is interesting that enemy made it to see 0,5 meters extended periscope at 2500 meters,estimate range in second and bee so precision.
I think Russian are not able to do it with BMP-2 infatry fighting vehicle with A42A canon and laser range finder.
Watch at youtube how soldiers firing at somalian pirates from close range and how thay missing.We are talking abouth 2012 year,compuers,lasers,hi teck weapons and aiming systems.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by =SE=Sova

It is interesting that enemy made it to see 0,5 meters extended periscope at 2500 meters,estimate range in second and bee so precision.

You are correct. Naval gunnery has been described as extremely imprecise. Machine guns are also noted for missing a lot. Combine the two and you've got only a tiny chance of hitting anything at more than 500 meters, and even that's going to have more to do with luck than skill.

[gap]

Interesting topic. Obviously SH5 wepaons/armor system requires a general rebalance.

Out of curiosity, Sova, wich kind of machine gun made that much damage to your sub?

sh4 and sh5 the "sniper" accuracy of all guns is and has been rediculous


the sad thing is a lot of modders dont care because they like it to be hard to survive things but IMO its better to be as realistic with damage as you can get which includes weapon damage and accuracy

[gap]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

You are correct. Naval gunnery has been described as extremely imprecise. Machine guns are also noted for missing a lot. Combine the two and you've got only a tiny chance of hitting anything at more than 500 meters, and even that's going to have more to do with luck than skill.

Originally Posted by Webster

sh4 and sh5 the "sniper" accuracy of all guns is and has been rediculous

In guns_radars_01.sim there are 3 parameters per gun that could affect their dispersion/accuracy. They are:

• Restr_dist (in meters): stock settings range from 100 to 1000; in general, bigger figures are applied to bigger calibers.
• Trav. tolerance and Elev. tolerance (in degrees?): stock settings for AI guns are invariably 1 for both parameters. U-boat's Flak guns got 15/15. U-boat's Deck gun: 0.75/0.75.

I've been digging in past threads of SHIII-IV forums for an explaination on what these parameters actually do, but couldn't find any clear answer. If anyone got time for fiddling with them, I can provide quick instructions on how to edit them in goblin editor, if needed.

Originally Posted by Webster

the sad thing is a lot of modders dont care because they like it to be hard to survive things but IMO its better to be as realistic with damage as you can get which includes weapon damage and accuracy

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...29#post1935329