Does anyone play at max difficulty?

[msumpsi]

Hi,
I am trying to play the game (RFB+RSRD) with everything off, no extarnal camare, no map concact update, no nothing and it really is full of frustration. The main problem with no map contact update is how to approach a target close enough to get his course in order to incercept, without being spotted. I have try to read smoke directions, have tryied to get sharp reading any information on the target course at very far distances, but with little success. Not to mention aircraft, that is almost undetetable for me. I will try Max Optics, but even knowing the bearing of the airplane, most of the times i do not see it. Anyways, map contacts descredit the game, you can just make a couple of marks and you got all the information, although i only use it for a rough course and distance, everything else just manual. But, even that is to much information, too false. Any tips to play with everything off?

[AVGWarhawk]

I play with external view only. I like to see my handy work. The rest is checked or 95% play. It gets less difficult the longer you play. Sometimes a task force/convoy drops into your lap. Other times the task force/convoy blow on by and all you can do is watch them disappear into the sunset. It is a game of laying in wait. Chase when you have the advantage and ability to do so.

[jcope]

You can get a pretty good idea of the target's course from the first three bearings taken using the "four bearings" method. Probably 80% of the time that works ok for me, although it requires you to sit motionless and track the target for quite a while, which may cause you to miss out on a firing opportunity.

If you also make an educated guess at target range, the you can get a good first approximation of speed.

All measurements can then be refined after you begin actively tracking the target.

The fourth bearing, which should provide range and speed has never worked for me.

If you have vector math and trigonometry skills, you could probably solve it mathematically. I have created spreadsheets on my ipad that substitute for my missing crew.

[I'm goin' down]

I can live without the external camera. But when you turn the map contacts off, the game gets REALLY tough, and requires a lot of patience. I can do it, but do not want to spend all my life at sea.

[Shkval]

Well you need this... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=AOB+formula it's from SH3 but never mind, same rules...

[I'm goin' down]

Been there, done that. The problem is that, according to the unopinionated Rockin Robbins, the Americns did not know the correct lengths of Japanese ships. Thus, if one inputs the lengths, it is not realisitc.

Calculating speed in the manner you have described has been discussed many times previously. This forum has been around for quite some time.

[msumpsi]

Originally Posted by jcope

You can get a pretty good idea of the target's course from the first three bearings taken using the "four bearings" method. Probably 80% of the time that works ok for me, although it requires you to sit motionless and track the target for quite a while, which may cause you to miss out on a firing opportunity.

If you also make an educated guess at target range, the you can get a good first approximation of speed.

All measurements can then be refined after you begin actively tracking the target.

The fourth bearing, which should provide range and speed has never worked for me.

If you have vector math and trigonometry skills, you could probably solve it mathematically. I have created spreadsheets on my ipad that substitute for my missing crew.

The problems with four beaing is that they are difficult for convoys or task forces since the brings can be mistaken from the whole lengh of the sonvoy itsefl. Besides it can take some very long times to get a wie sprea of angles and the target is changing course pretty often in RSRD campaign. Thanks for the avise.

[msumpsi]

Originally Posted by Shkval

Well you need this... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=AOB+formula it's from SH3 but never mind, same rules...

I deal with a target at 1000 yards, what i have more problem is with tracing an trracking a target at 10 miles with no map contact update.

[msumpsi]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

Been there, done that. The problem is that, according to the unopinionated Rockin Robbins, the Americns did not know the correct lengths of Japanese ships. Thus, if one inputs the lengths, it is not realisitc.

Calculating speed in the manner you have described has been discussed many times previously. This forum has been around for quite some time.

Rocking Robbins plays with map contact updates on.

[msumpsi]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

I can live without the external camera. But when you turn the map contacts off, the game gets REALLY tough, and requires a lot of patience. I can do it, but do not want to spend all my life at sea.

I agree.

[I'm goin' down]

Whew, I feel a lot better now.

[Armistead]

Difficulty comes more from mods and your tweaks than game settings. However, if you plan to play with contacts off you need to learn to use the radar mod.

I go in spells, but when I get serious, I load my hard mod setup and cut contacts and the cam off. It takes time, attacking and evading a group can take several hours.

[I'm goin' down]

This the mod created by Nisgeis called the 3D TDC and Radar Range Mod? That is a great mod, but it takes time to play the game using it. I was watching Run Silent Run Deep, and in one scene it appears in the background. I haven't thought about whether you could use Capnscruvy's mod (I forogt the the name) with map contacts off. That may be a possibility, too.

(Nisgeis also created the Torpedo Angle mod for setting the degrees when firing torpedoes so they create a spread. That is another sophisicated mod. And, if you want to leave the earth, activate MOBO -- somebody let aaronblood loose, and he went wild.)

[hardaport]

I haven't played without mab updates, but using basic geometry you should be able to get some idea. Eg. a merchant of any size will normally run at between 6 to 9 knots. This puts a target within a calculable range if at least 2 bearings are known, if you are stationary. If you totally lose a contact because you sit still for 5 minutes, you probably will never be able to intercept him anyway, so the steps to follow would be:

1. Get your first bearing.
2. Wait 5 minutes, and get your second bearing. Your hydrophone man will also tell you if the target is moving away or closing. If it's closing you will have more chance of making an intercept.
3. By plotting a min-max zone between the two bearings based on the likely speeds indicated above you will begin to get an idea of where he is possibly heading. That's about all you want to find out initially.
4. By moving to an anticipated spot where you can improve your intel, if the soundings get stronger and the bearings support your initial thoughts, you can then begin to firm up your estimates by moving quickly, stopping for a listen, and so forth. Eventually you should be able to get a visual on him and then correct your approach for attack.
5. By not having map updates you are simulating the real-life frustrations of real sub skippers of WWII. That's the downside. But if your educated guesses pay off, it would make a score much more satisfying.

I'll have to give my theory a try though to find out if this is all just BS!

[CapnScurvy]

Does anyone play with maximum difficulty? Why yes we do.

As pointed out in this thread, one of the more difficult ways to play is with the "No Map Contacts Updated" enabled. You still get the sub shown on the map (as you should.......you and your crew should know where in the world you are), but no other targets are placed on the navigation map. You'll have to manually plot a targets position on the map, and keep it updated to determine speed, and AoB.

The speed is determined by knowing the distance between two different target positions, and knowing the time it took for the target to travel between the two points. The AoB is determined by the given angles of the sub, compared to the target, and by using the tools available on the nav map. With a good plot, the targets tract (its path of travel compared to true north) can be placed on the map giving you the exact position of where the target is and where it will be........giving you the information you'll need to make an intercept with the target possible.

I highly recommend you read my "High Realism Tutorial" which outlines the way to make proper map plots, without the use of the game providing the targets position. You'll also learn how to use Manual Targeting as the way to effectively make a firing solution. On the above linked thread, you'll find a JSGME compatible "High Realism (practice) Mission" (exactly as the target within the tutorial is shown) so you can follow along. Also, there's a link to the "AoB Calculator" which will help in figuring a targets tract, or determining it's Angle on Bow, depending on which information you have available. A nice handheld device for those wanting a bit more information while at the nav map (although the same information can be gleaned from the American Position Keeper, if you know how to read it). The AoB Calculator is a "must" for the German side of play at 100% realism (no Position Keeper found here).

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

The problem is that, according to the unopinionated Rockin Robbins, the Americns did not know the correct lengths of Japanese ships. Thus, if one inputs the lengths, it is not realisitc.

I disagree, ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) made sure the most up-to-date information was made available to a commander. Take a look at some of these images for the Japanese ships.......lengths are given. Are they accurate? My opinion is that if a Captain realized his torpedo's missed due to an error in given measurements, he penciled in his corrected estimate, for the next time he encountered the target. To him (and his crew), this wasn't a game to take lightly. Their lives depended on making each torpedo count, with the best estimated firing solution possible. If a given measurement was decided to be inaccurate, I'll guarantee you the word would have gotten to every other Captain on the return to base.

One other note, trying to figure an accurate firing solution manually depends on what you see through the periscope, or what you glean through the use of the sonar/radar. Unfortunately, the game misses the mark with giving wrong measurements due to having the visual views rendered inaccurately. In other words, a yard measurement doesn't measure a true yard, a mile doesn't measure a mile. Having authentic measurements doesn't count for much if your measuring tool (the periscope view) doesn't measure correctly. That's why I've created the "Optical Targeting Correction", to give the player a chance to use the tools the real life Captain used, without the errors the game puts in our path. Combined with setting your options with as high realism as possible, you'll get a better feeling of what the crews dealt with.