Germany and France vow to strengthen ties

[Gerald]

French and German leaders have stressed they will remain committed in tackling European issues on the 50th anniversary of a post-WWII reconciliation speech.

Chancellor Angela Merkel and President Francois Hollande made the pledge in the German city of Ludwigsburg.

Speaking in German there in 1962, French President Charles de Gaulle said they were "children of a great nation which had made great errors".

The two allies are working closely to address the current euro debt crisis.

"Less than 20 years after the most horrible global conflict, it took boldness to call for the union of our two countries which had fought against each other with such savagery," Mr Hollande said.

"It took boldness to believe in Europe, this continent which had just torn itself apart. It took boldness to turn resentment into hope."

France and Germany have "a very special responsibility, we form the heart of Europe", he said.

Mr Hollande spoke of the need to "create instruments that make us stronger: a fiscal union, a banking union, a social union, a political union".

At the end of his speech, President Hollande spoke in German addressing young people in both countries: "It is now your role to make the European dream a reality and give it a future."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19684532


Note: 22 September 2012 Last updated at 15:26 GMT

[Gargamel]

[Skybird]

Germany and France vow to strengthen ties

Good one!

[soopaman2]

I thought the Maginot line was for strengthening ties.

It just caused the low countries to be invaded first.

Kidding really (sorta), I deserve whatever I get for that.

I have a nasty critisizm of Germanys banker loving government. (Not the people)

I always thought since the euro currency came about, they wanted to do to Europe, what Panzers didn't accomplish.Too much power, for a nation who in less than 20 years apart...Nevermind

Blunt, perhaps a bit caustic. I swear I am not trolling. Just being honest.
Feel free to kill me.

[Herr-Berbunch]

More 'living room', again.


Don't blame me, Soopaman2 started it.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

I always thought since the euro currency came about, they wanted to do to Europe, what Panzers didn't accomplish.Too much power, for a nation who in less than 20 years apart...Nevermind

You are aware that a lot of Eurpoean countries which are struck by the self created crisis are trying to bleed us white? They are demanding money, money money and more money and who would be a better candidate for paying than those guys who lost the war?
Actually our chancellor has caved in to most of their demands. We are killing our own budget to try to help others (and I say to try because I don't think that Greece can actually be saved...). So where is that panzer like power you are speaking of?

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

who would be a better candidate for paying than those guys who lost the war?

The smaller guys who also lost the war.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

I thought the Maginot line was for strengthening ties.

It just caused the low countries to be invaded first.

Kidding really (sorta), I deserve whatever I get for that.

I have a nasty critisizm of Germanys banker loving government. (Not the people)

I always thought since the euro currency came about, they wanted to do to Europe, what Panzers didn't accomplish.Too much power, for a nation who in less than 20 years apart...Nevermind

Blunt, perhaps a bit caustic. I swear I am not trolling. Just being honest.
Feel free to kill me.

You are aware that the French threatened to not accept the Germn reunification and not signing the according treaties "2+4" if Westgermany does not will to replace the D-Mark with an Euro whose introduction thus should be accelerated dispite all warning sand against all economic and political reason!? Mitterand openly compared the D-Mark to a "German atom bomb". The French have a serious problem with their past, they just cannot get over that their imperial glory is over and that by their own means they are too weak to appear and be that strong as they want to be, economically. And this although they practically have invented the Airbus industry.

And so the disaster unfolded.

The world laughed about the Germans who know nothing about quick profit and short-termed gains, these funny Germans buying so many life insurances instead and privately saving more than any other people for bad times. Even worse - now the German private savings should be stolen by the ECB and get used to save foreign nations and their banks who behave like playing in a Casino. The people who accumulated these savings over their working lives are expected to accept poverty in their high age and be turned into social wellfare cases, although they tried to prepare against poverty for over 30, 40 years of their working life.

WWII has cut deep wounds into German soul, if you think you can walk here in Germany and propagate German ruling and expansion again in Europe, than you think wrong. Our politicians spend half of the day giving warnings to each other that German should not lead and should not dare to do anything to give the impression again that German expansionism is back, and so on and on, just yesterday it was done again by Helmut Schmidt who got some award (I really hope that he finally would shut up now, he's 94 but talks as if still living in the 1950s or 1960s).

And even when the Euro was prepared for, and installed, many of the criminal debtors of today already knew they would end like they did today, which shows they had the intention to live by the German blood drip from all beginning on: of Greece we know that they successfully protested and threatened boycott to prevent that Euro banknotes get national marking (like coins can be individually identified for each country). Because then there would have been Greek Euros and Spanish Euros and so on, and in the situation today it wouldn'T be possible for them to do what actually they do right now, without the ECB: they prnt their own Euros and throw them onto the market, because you cannot identify them and get them out of the market and ban these banknotes from circulating. Go figure what that means for all these pathetic claims about how to manage the crisis and that they have to fulfill obligations and so on. It is no secret anymore that these countries do not fulfill even half of their negotiated obligations. Instead they pump their home-made money into the European bankote market.

It'S all a mess that equals a perfect storm for Germany. It will crush my country in the long run, I am certain. And when there is nothing to be sucked out of Germany by the others anymore, than this monetarian union and this wonderful EU will have achieved right the opposite of what they - anti-intellectually - claim what it is about. They claim without the Euro and the EU their would be war and bloodshed , and peace would break apart. They ignore NATO and the USSR threat and claim that it were the EU that brought and secured peace to Europe. But when Germany has been sucked empty and drowns in its debts like America today, then their will be much more hostility in Europe again, not less. Their will be more mutual animosities between the various people, not less (we already see it today: how often do Germans get accused to be Nazis if they do not will to pay unconditionally for the others?) There can be riots that surpass those seen in Greece. Their can come civil wars and uprises. And after that, even national wars cannot be ruled out anymore. Though I doubt it will be hightech armies fighting them.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Hottentot

The smaller guys who also lost the war.

Yep. Occasionally we hear in our media here that in Finland their is growing demand to quit over the Euro, or at least not paying for the Southern countries anymore. If you Fins are clever, you really do that. In Germany, such a proposal would be a hopeless cause. We will accept to burn and fall with it all until the bitter end. But you Fins must not follow our obsession for self-destruction!

Holland would be well-advised to quit, to, also Austria. Leave the French alone with the Frankenstein monster they have created, shall the French pay themselves to death for the Southern countries they love so much.

Oh wait. They hang on the German drip already, too, just deceive it cleverly via the ECB and Euro policies. - As a German, when you are screwed, then you are really screwed totally.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

You are aware that a lot of Eurpoean countries which are struck by the self created crisis are trying to bleed us white? They are demanding money, money money and more money and who would be a better candidate for paying than those guys who lost the war?
Actually our chancellor has caved in to most of their demands. We are killing our own budget to try to help others (and I say to try because I don't think that Greece can actually be saved...). So where is that panzer like power you are speaking of?

I think you mean the banks that loaned money to governments incapable of repaying, aided and abetted by the German government (and other countries) and most of all the EU itself got in "trouble" and now want help. Everyone seems blind to the real causes and accept the clichés fed to us-lazy PIGS and "panzer are back"-rather than those that screwed everyone over.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yep. Occasionally we hear in our media here that in Finland their is growing demand to quit over the Euro, or at least not paying for the Southern countries anymore. If you Fins are clever, you really do that. In Germany, such a proposal would be a hopeless cause. We will accept to burn and fall with it all until the bitter end. But you Fins must not follow our obsession for self-destruction!

Holland would be well-advised to quit, to, also Austria. Leave the French alone with the Frankenstein monster they have created, shall the French pay themselves to death for the Southern countries they love so much.

Oh wait. They hang on the German drip already, too, just deceive it cleverly via the ECB and Euro policies. - As a German, when you are screwed, then you are really screwed totally.

Still stuck on this northern industrious folk paying for the lazy southerners eh? One who is so critical of the falsehoods we are all fed.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Hottentot

The smaller guys who also lost the war.

Codswallop, Holland won, anyway that is all garbage. I've alread posted articles a long time ago so either search yourself or try to look beyond the crap the EU is feeding everyone as to the root causes of the crisis.

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by joea

Codswallop, Holland won, anyway that is all garbage. I've alread posted articles a long time ago so either search yourself or try to look beyond the crap the EU is feeding everyone as to the root causes of the crisis.

How about taking a chill-pill and trying again?

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yep. Occasionally we hear in our media here that in Finland their is growing demand to quit over the Euro, or at least not paying for the Southern countries anymore. If you Fins are clever, you really do that. In Germany, such a proposal would be a hopeless cause. We will accept to burn and fall with it all until the bitter end. But you Fins must not follow our obsession for self-destruction!

I'm not sure if I would talk about any demand yet. The ones who do demand it tend to be loud, but I don't know if it's the popular opinion yet (any Finn with statistics, feel free to correct me.) And it's the payment packages that get most of the criticism, though people seem to be becoming more sceptical towards the Union itself too. Really, hard to say based on just personal observations.

And with the current administration it's just not going to happen. I'm also very sceptical of the True Finns' potential as well, and they are just about the only party that could try achieving something as radical as that.

[Jimbuna]

Regardless of whatever side or viewpoint you take I think everyone can agree on one thing...the EU is in financial crisis.

What bothers me most is I don't see anyone learning any lessons from the situation but rather a collection of individual countries going their own way toward whatever they believe to be the best way for a solution to them as individual nations.

I fear it will all go belly up in the end and hope Britain withdraws before that day is upon us.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

What bothers me most is I don't see anyone learning any lessons from the situation but rather a collection of individual countries going their own way toward whatever they believe to be the best way for a solution to them as individual nations.

Was it ever going to end any other way?
As I said to the chaps on TS last night, you can't get a group of countries that have spent pretty much their entire histories beating each other senseless and suddenly expect them to put their differences aside and not put their own nation first. The Euro was doomed to fail from the start, not because of finances, or not just because of it, but because of human nature. We're just not ready for that level of co-ordination yet, heck I mean look at the UN and the tangled inoperative mess that that has become from the good intentions of post-World War II. National pride and motives will seep into any political agenda.