Practice this

[DelphiUniverse]

Practice hitting targets from long range. Here is an example from 7800 metres away. No retries, no save-reload, this is on first attempt. I have a bit of practice, that is why I almost always make it. I use the steinbarsch torpedo here, it travels at 45 knots, and it has a range of 8 km, that is why I chose 7800 metres, so that I have 200 metres extra fail-rate.

When you practice long range targets, you will of course improve your skills, he-he. Practice them often.

[gap]

I dare you to do the same with no contacts on map, and with real navigation enabled!

[DelphiUniverse]

Ya, it is harder, I would choose somewhere between 1000-4000 metres with no map contacts to reduce risk of missing. If you practice with map contacts, you get quantity training, while without map contacts, you don't get the same amount of training as it takes longer to complete a kill, both are useful practice.

[DelphiUniverse]

Btw, there were four ships, I torpedoed one of them, finished the other 3 with deck gun. Here are the other 3. It took forever to get to them at flank speed.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by DelphiUniverse

Practice hitting targets from long range. Here is an example from 7800 metres away. No retries, no save-reload, this is on first attempt. I have a bit of practice, that is why I almost always make it. I use the steinbarsch torpedo here, it travels at 45 knots, and it has a range of 8 km, that is why I chose 7800 metres, so that I have 200 metres extra fail-rate.

Great lead in to another idea I have...it deals with torpedo drift.

The idea is simple: the game makes the torpedo travel on a perfect course to the target. Whatever course the torpedo was set to follow after it's initial turn is where it heads. Now in game this is a perfect straight line. I HIGHLY doubt this was the case in real life. The torpedo had to drift some - maybe 0.25 degree to the left then maybe 0.38 degree to the right then...well you get the idea. I plan on modelling something like this with another patch. Thoughts

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pdf/torp-mk18-tactical.pdf

[TheBeast]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Great lead in to another idea I have...it deals with torpedo drift.

The idea is simple: the game makes the torpedo travel on a perfect course to the target. Whatever course the torpedo was set to follow after it's initial turn is where it heads. Now in game this is a perfect straight line. I HIGHLY doubt this was the case in real life. The torpedo had to drift some - maybe 0.25 degree to the left then maybe 0.38 degree to the right then...well you get the idea. I plan on modelling something like this with another patch. Thoughts

Maybe create new Early War Torpedo Set:
data\Library\torpedoes_g7a-e_EW.GR2/SIM/VAL/ZON
I think Torp Names/Availablity Date Range can be configured in the data\UPCDataGE\UPCUnitsData\Weapons.upc file
EWT1Torpedo, EWT1Fat1Torpedo, EWT2Torpedo, EWT3Torpedo, EWT3Fat2Torpedo, EWT4Torpedo, EWT5Torpedo, EWT7Torpedo, EWT11Torpedo, EWT1Lut1Torpedo, EWT3Lut2Torpedo

This could also include depth keeping / Pre-detonation / Dud torpedo values.

Not sure how to configure AI Torpedo's or if you should bother.

try adding something like the guns have where there is a hit to miss ratio of error so you dont get the same exact spot hit every time because of the error factor

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Webster

try adding something like the guns have where there is a hit to miss ratio of error so you dont get the same exact spot hit every time because of the error factor

That's what I'm trying to convey, some form of drift. I have a very hard time believing that anything moving underwater will travel in a perfectly straight line under speed. Waves and currents are two that I can think of that would constantly be altering the path of travel of the object. So even though course may stay constant it's path of travel will drift (parallel to original course).

[quink99]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

That's what I'm trying to convey, some form of drift. I have a very hard time believing that anything moving underwater will travel in a perfectly straight line under speed. Waves and currents are two that I can think of that would constantly be altering the path of travel of the object. So even though course may stay constant it's path of travel will drift (parallel to original course).

In a moving mass of water, or a constant current, in the ocean the torpedo's heading, barring mechanical problems, will remain constant. Likewise it's course or path through the water will also remain constant. The only thing affected by the currents will be the track or the line of movement and the speed over the ocean floor. The relative motion or positioning of the three objects will remain constant and the firing resolution will remain unaffected by currents as long the target, the U-boat and the torpedo are all in the same current.

It works exactly the same way with aircraft in a jet stream. Imagine in the middle of a dogfight having to adjust every shot or missle you fired for the heading and velocity of the 200k. air mass (read jet stream) you were fighting in. The U-boat Kaleun's targeting would look like a day at the beach in comparison.

[Hinrich Schwab]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Great lead in to another idea I have...it deals with torpedo drift.

The idea is simple: the game makes the torpedo travel on a perfect course to the target. Whatever course the torpedo was set to follow after it's initial turn is where it heads. Now in game this is a perfect straight line. I HIGHLY doubt this was the case in real life. The torpedo had to drift some - maybe 0.25 degree to the left then maybe 0.38 degree to the right then...well you get the idea. I plan on modelling something like this with another patch. Thoughts

I think the hydrodynamics and other issues would make this more trouble than it is worth. You would have to take into account the torpedo's speed to mass ratio, the current itself and factor in water salinity and then have the algorithm check to see if drift would occur and then have the drift applied accordingly. I honestly do not think you can do this properly without full access to the source code. There would be too many new variables and zones to add.

[wamphyri]

Originally Posted by Hinrich Schwab

I think the hydrodynamics and other issues would make this more trouble than it is worth. You would have to take into account the torpedo's speed to mass ratio, the current itself and factor in water salinity and then have the algorithm check to see if drift would occur and then have the drift applied accordingly. I honestly do not think you can do this properly without full access to the source code. There would be too many new variables and zones to add.

I don't believe he was going to go this far. Just let there be a slight change in heading, maybe at random.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by wamphyri

I don't believe he was going to go this far. Just let there be a slight change in heading, maybe at random.

Exactly. That's what I'm going to code in. I mean think about it: if there is any slop at all in the linkages to the rudder then you will naturally get a slight amount of drift. That in itself justifies the patch

[DelphiUniverse]

Improvements are great, but let us not assume everything in the game is bad just because people are able to hit targets with a torpedo.

Let us also assume that there comes a point when people are able to hit targets too, and that the game isn't corrupted because of that. If you do a quick google, you will see that some 3,500 allied merchants were sunk during the war, the number is probably varying from site to site, but the odds are overwhelming that hitting a target, the equipment is not bad, it happened darn often that you hit the damn target considering how few uboats were operating at any given time. They hit targets, we hit targets and thats the way it should be. The game is not finished when we cant hit targets anymore, that is when the game is most unlike the real thing if we look at the statistics of sunken ships.

Hope you see the point, this just might take things too far imho.

It's sort of like "****, you were not supposed to hit that target, lets **** up the game immediately, we cant allow people to hit targets"

or something like this.. "nooooooooo, that guy shot down an airplane with the aa guns, let us bend the aa guns so that it cant fire anymore"
or "the deck gun is hitting targets, let us loosen up the screws that hold the deck gun in place so that it's not steady anymore, or risk falling off the sub"
or "that damn hydrophone man detected a ship, let us make scratches on the glass on the hydrophone so he cant read the bearings anymore"

Do what you guys want, but if I were you, I would put my focus on solving bugs and adding more useful features. Like, implementing a function to have radio messages popup on the map directly as text, so I dont have to press 'I' every time, or creating a tool for implementing effective search patterns.

[rebel 411]

Here is a thought what about just haveing a torp run wild have it run a circle or run to deep or to shallow make it part of the torp dud problem