Libya looks set to chart moderate course on Islam

Gerald · 11-05-11, 05:09 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15500682

Note: 4 November 2011 Last updated at 07:38 GMT

Skybird · 11-05-11, 06:33 AM

Moderate Islam.

Modern backwardedness. Improved primitivity. Liberal tyranny. Humanistic discrimination. A judaphile "Mein Kampf". A leftist right. A light darkness. A loud silence. A true lie.

What says Turkey's neo-ottoman emperor, Erdoghan I: ? That the West should stop talking of moderate and conservative Islam, since that would be an offence, an insult to every muslim since there is only one Islam, one Islam and not more, and that it is based on Quran and Shariah? So says Erdoghan, and over the years quite many representatives of Islam and Muslim countries. Strange to see mysself agreeing with somebody I dispise so much like him.

But that statement is not standardised in an EU-paper with the stamp of an Euro-Norm on it, so it must not be taken into account. Western clever Dicks know so much better what Islam is and how the Quran and Sharia are really meant. I mean really really is meant, you see. The really real realness behind the mere mentioning of "real".

Watch "moderate" Turkey were it leads. Backwards. And polygamy: a latin word for female inequality.

Turkish examples again: a Turkish court short while ago gave mild, suspended penalties to I think 23 men, many of them office-holders, influential persons and pillars of public life and their communities, who gang-raped a 13 year old girl repeatedly and over a longer time, saying that the girl faces a share of guilt, since she "invited" sexual intercourse (that'S why women shall wear burqhas, to prevent the hormones of undisciplined male animals going amok all day long, which is not their fault, but that of diabolic wicked women inviting them). - Dominance of male, almost "tribal" structures, and massive restrenghtening of ultra-patriarchalic structures in public offices and adminstration has been installed over the past years. The military is hollowed out and striopped of its powers, the leadership slowly replaced with a generation of fundamentalists moving into the medium ranks and from there into the top ranks in the near future. The number of women holding offices and powers in public services and offices, has dramatically declined. More wear head-scarfs again. The lift of the ban of head-scarfs at university was not meant to allow more women to unversity, but to enforce women at university becoming more submissive to Islam again, which they did when the conswervatives suddenly had free entrance to the universities and started to outnumber the modern women and enforcing an anonymous pressure for compliance. The number of modern, "Westernised" women in Turkish society is declining, the ground they held is reduced anyway, and what remains of that is taken over by conservative, submissive females. All this under the flag of female rights and female equality. Yeah, sure.

It will start like this in Libya. And then become much worse over the next two legislations. After all it is the tribes that still have the decisive word in Libyan politics, without their at least silent tolerance you cannot rule and pacify the country. There are too many parties and factions, to many unlikely-to-hold alliances of utmost fragility. In all countries of the Arab unrest this year, the religious fundamentalists were the ones to form the strongest and most solid self-organisations of all.

I think they have over 200 tribes, in a country of only 6.X million. Go figure.

BTW, what has happened to the 20.000 ATM- and SAM-shoulderpads they are missing over there, in soon-to-be-democratic Libya? Wait, I read it since some days in the news, the first of them have shown up in Afghanistan, Libanon and probably also are on their way to Gaza, while some more are on their way to Somalia and Egypt, to help the right-believing brothers and sisters there to help democracy becoming victorious.

The German BKA (=German FBI) meanwhile has warned of airliners getting SAMmed at German and European airports.

_dgn_ · 11-05-11, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Moderate Islam.

Yes, an human Islam, with moderate Charia ...

By example, for stoning adulteresses, sharpened stones will be covered of anaesthetic !!!

tater · 11-05-11, 09:08 AM

LOL.

Even if there were such a thing as "moderate Islam" (there are no major sects that are not fundamentalist in Islam, and any that are the least bit "moderate" are attacked by all the other sects), Libya is gonna be ugly.

Look at images of Libyans with signs/flags. I have seen them in news stories, and the signs are unremarked. The black flag/sign with the white circle... Al Qaida.

Skybird · 11-05-11, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

The black flag/sign with the white circle... Al Qaida.

Naaaa - just the local Johohonny Depp fan club.

1480 · 11-05-11, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Naaaa - just the local Johohonny Depp fan club.

Once again, skybird made me laugh.

Moderate Islam = military intelligence.

Betonov · 11-05-11, 12:06 PM

If they bring it on a level that my Bosnian co-workers show, they'll achieve a lot

Tchocky · 11-05-11, 01:52 PM

Islamists aren't stupid. They're not going to try for total power in Libya straight after a despotic dictator. There are social/economic problems and 40 years of repressed rage to be worked out - better to let a moderate, cohesive government get the country back onto an even keel and then try convincing the people that make-believe chop-off-hands is the important stuff.

Blech. So far better than what was in place before, sad that that's all to be said right now.

joegrundman · 11-05-11, 01:55 PM

i feel pity for osama bin laden. it seems unfair that he didn't live long enough to see this tremendous irony that NATO and the UN has helped to achieve on his posthumous behalf

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ourthouse.html

Kongo Otto · 11-05-11, 02:05 PM

Even the last village idiot on this planet by now should have learned that Islam is an enemy to every free secular society on this planet.
21st centuries Islam is nothing more than hate, violence, murder, intolerance and opression to everyone else!!

tater · 11-05-11, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

If they bring it on a level that my Bosnian co-workers show, they'll achieve a lot

In the three, so-called "great" monotheisms, "moderation" has been achieved by ignoring segments of whichever holy book. In Islam, there are no large groups who have done this at all as a matter of sect doctrine. Some muslims are moderate simply because they are not terribly devout, or because they simply don't know what their own religion teaches. The same is true of jews and christians, BTW. Most of those know the 10 commandments, but how many know that the punishment for violating most of them is death?

So, there are no real moderate sects of Islam, but there are plenty of people who identify themselves as muslims who do not really practice good Islam, and are hence "moderate." The whole point of the Muslim Brotherhood, and similar organizations is to teach muslims arabic (the vast majority of muslims are unable to read their own holy book—200-something million people can speak or read arabic, and there are 1.2 billion muslims). Once they learn to read the koran, they become far more fundamentalist, since Islam requires literalism and infallibility of their silly book (again, the same is true of other, silly books).

Morts · 11-05-11, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kongo Otto

Even the last village idiot on this planet by now should have learned that Islam is an enemy to every free secular society on this planet.
21st centuries Islam is nothing more than hate, violence, murder, intolerance and opression to everyone else!!

yeah, whatever.

Betonov · 11-05-11, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

In the three, so-called "great" monotheisms, "moderation" has been achieved by ignoring segments of whichever holy book.

Exactly, that's what makes the Bosnians so moderate, they're very good at ignoring (especialy the part of the work process called instructions)

Kongo Otto · 11-05-11, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kongo Otto

Even the last village idiot on this planet by now should have learned that Islam is an enemy to every free secular society on this planet.
21st centuries Islam is nothing more than hate, violence, murder, intolerance and opression to everyone else!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morts

yeah, whatever.

Ah ok how old are you? 12?
Taking your statement as an "really sophisticated" expression of islam, then please answer the question what achievements had the Islam in the last lets say 100 years instead of hate, murder, violence, intolerance and opression?
C'mon enlighten us with your profound knowledge.

Kongo Otto · 11-05-11, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

If they bring it on a level that my Bosnian co-workers show, they'll achieve a lot

Sorry for asking, is this now sarcasm, irony or zynism?

11-05-11, 05:09 AM	#1
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Libya looks set to chart moderate course on Islam http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15500682 Note: 4 November 2011 Last updated at 07:38 GMT __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

11-05-11, 06:33 AM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Moderate Islam. Modern backwardedness. Improved primitivity. Liberal tyranny. Humanistic discrimination. A judaphile "Mein Kampf". A leftist right. A light darkness. A loud silence. A true lie. What says Turkey's neo-ottoman emperor, Erdoghan I: ? That the West should stop talking of moderate and conservative Islam, since that would be an offence, an insult to every muslim since there is only one Islam, one Islam and not more, and that it is based on Quran and Shariah? So says Erdoghan, and over the years quite many representatives of Islam and Muslim countries. Strange to see mysself agreeing with somebody I dispise so much like him. But that statement is not standardised in an EU-paper with the stamp of an Euro-Norm on it, so it must not be taken into account. Western clever Dicks know so much better what Islam is and how the Quran and Sharia are really meant. I mean really really is meant, you see. The really real realness behind the mere mentioning of "real". Watch "moderate" Turkey were it leads. Backwards. And polygamy: a latin word for female inequality. Turkish examples again: a Turkish court short while ago gave mild, suspended penalties to I think 23 men, many of them office-holders, influential persons and pillars of public life and their communities, who gang-raped a 13 year old girl repeatedly and over a longer time, saying that the girl faces a share of guilt, since she "invited" sexual intercourse (that'S why women shall wear burqhas, to prevent the hormones of undisciplined male animals going amok all day long, which is not their fault, but that of diabolic wicked women inviting them). - Dominance of male, almost "tribal" structures, and massive restrenghtening of ultra-patriarchalic structures in public offices and adminstration has been installed over the past years. The military is hollowed out and striopped of its powers, the leadership slowly replaced with a generation of fundamentalists moving into the medium ranks and from there into the top ranks in the near future. The number of women holding offices and powers in public services and offices, has dramatically declined. More wear head-scarfs again. The lift of the ban of head-scarfs at university was not meant to allow more women to unversity, but to enforce women at university becoming more submissive to Islam again, which they did when the conswervatives suddenly had free entrance to the universities and started to outnumber the modern women and enforcing an anonymous pressure for compliance. The number of modern, "Westernised" women in Turkish society is declining, the ground they held is reduced anyway, and what remains of that is taken over by conservative, submissive females. All this under the flag of female rights and female equality. Yeah, sure. It will start like this in Libya. And then become much worse over the next two legislations. After all it is the tribes that still have the decisive word in Libyan politics, without their at least silent tolerance you cannot rule and pacify the country. There are too many parties and factions, to many unlikely-to-hold alliances of utmost fragility. In all countries of the Arab unrest this year, the religious fundamentalists were the ones to form the strongest and most solid self-organisations of all. I think they have over 200 tribes, in a country of only 6.X million. Go figure. BTW, what has happened to the 20.000 ATM- and SAM-shoulderpads they are missing over there, in soon-to-be-democratic Libya? Wait, I read it since some days in the news, the first of them have shown up in Afghanistan, Libanon and probably also are on their way to Gaza, while some more are on their way to Somalia and Egypt, to help the right-believing brothers and sisters there to help democracy becoming victorious. The German BKA (=German FBI) meanwhile has warned of airliners getting SAMmed at German and European airports. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 11-05-11 at 08:28 AM.

11-05-11, 09:08 AM	#4
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	LOL. Even if there were such a thing as "moderate Islam" (there are no major sects that are not fundamentalist in Islam, and any that are the least bit "moderate" are attacked by all the other sects), Libya is gonna be ugly. Look at images of Libyans with signs/flags. I have seen them in news stories, and the signs are unremarked. The black flag/sign with the white circle... Al Qaida. __________________ "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." — Thomas Paine

11-05-11, 01:52 PM	#8
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Islamists aren't stupid. They're not going to try for total power in Libya straight after a despotic dictator. There are social/economic problems and 40 years of repressed rage to be worked out - better to let a moderate, cohesive government get the country back onto an even keel and then try convincing the people that make-believe chop-off-hands is the important stuff. Blech. So far better than what was in place before, sad that that's all to be said right now. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

11-05-11, 01:55 PM	#9
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	i feel pity for osama bin laden. it seems unfair that he didn't live long enough to see this tremendous irony that NATO and the UN has helped to achieve on his posthumous behalf http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ourthouse.html __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

11-05-11, 12:06 PM	#7
Betonov Navy Seal Join Date: May 2009 Location: Slovenia Posts: 8,647 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	If they bring it on a level that my Bosnian co-workers show, they'll achieve a lot

11-05-11, 02:05 PM	#10
Kongo Otto Commodore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Augsburg / Germany Posts: 631 Downloads: 203 Uploads: 0	Even the last village idiot on this planet by now should have learned that Islam is an enemy to every free secular society on this planet. 21st centuries Islam is nothing more than hate, violence, murder, intolerance and opression to everyone else!!