How does scope detection logic work?

Pappy55 · 02-08-11, 12:28 PM

Apart from the obvious logic how does detection work?

Is the scope automaticaly spoted under a certain range weather depending?
Or does it work on a time base? e.g I leave the scope up for too long past a game coded logic timer..l

BigRich · 02-08-11, 12:41 PM

In my experience, during daylight and especially good weather, your scope is likely to be spotted if you are close to an enemy ship. The higher out the water your scope is then the more likely it is to get seen and fired on.
At night, provided you don't alert the enemy escorts by making too much noise, or attacking something, you can sail around with your scope up and you should be okay.
However, once you have launched an attack and the enemy knows roughly where you are then they will play their searchlights around you and if your scope is spotted, shot at again. Even in rough weather at night with the waves breaking over your scope, it's still visible if they lock their searchlights onto your position.

frau kaleun · 02-08-11, 03:39 PM

I'm not sure but I think the movement/speed of your boat would also be a factor because of the 'scope's wake, especially in calmer waters where there's no chop to provide even a little "camo" for it. It would be a concern in RL, obviously, but I'm not sure if the game models this.

In RL a u-boat would be limiting its speed with the 'scope up anyway, because anything above 3-4 knots (IIRC) would make using the 'scope at all a dicey proposition; but the game doesn't reflect that, so it is possible to go full/flank speed submerged with the 'scope up and in theory this would increase the wake. But again I don't know if the game's AI is going to pick up on that or not.

02-08-11, 03:48 PM

Detection is solely based on what the AI Visual can spot.

From GWX:
Enemy surface factor=350 ;[m2]

That's meters squared.
350 meters is quit a lot but there are Game Engine factors involved.
We can not tell the Engine that some objects are outside this factor.
A scope should be harder to spot as it nowhere nears the 350 meters mark.

But We can not change that effect without very serious side effects.

As an example:
Working on self-diving Subs for SH3 I edited this value to solve some issues with the test Sub.
That fixed the problem but introduced many other problems.
Those problems broke the Game.

danexpat · 02-08-11, 04:07 PM

I just fitted my scope with a little rubber Loch Ness Monster head. The enemy ship crews just point and take pictures now but don't open fire.

frau kaleun · 02-08-11, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danexpat

I just fitted my scope with a little rubber Loch Ness Monster head. The enemy ship crews just point and take pictures now but don't open fire.

Interesting, but I'm holding out for one of these:

Brag · 02-08-11, 05:11 PM

When Bernard hangs his longjohns to dry on the scope, keen eyed RN ratings spot it immediately.

Missing Name · 02-08-11, 05:43 PM

I'm pretty sure that periscope wakes are a factor in detection.

sharkbit · 02-08-11, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Detection is solely based on what the AI Visual can spot.

Does it matter how high out of the water the scope is?

I always put of the minimum amount of scope above the surface. Once the scope gets far enough out of the water to make my observations, I stop the scope, make my observations..quickly, and drop it back down.

It is rare for me to fully extend my scope. No sense in leaving a telephone pole waving around out there.

02-08-11, 12:28 PM	#1
Pappy55 Engineer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 211 Downloads: 173 Uploads: 0	How does scope detection logic work? Apart from the obvious logic how does detection work? Is the scope automaticaly spoted under a certain range weather depending? Or does it work on a time base? e.g I leave the scope up for too long past a game coded logic timer..l __________________

02-08-11, 05:11 PM	#7
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	When Bernard hangs his longjohns to dry on the scope, keen eyed RN ratings spot it immediately. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

02-08-11, 05:43 PM	#8
Missing Name Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Westun New Yahk Posts: 748 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	I'm pretty sure that periscope wakes are a factor in detection. __________________ Largest target sunk with deck gun: Japanese auxiliary cruiser, 15000 tons Largest engaged: HMS Nelson. Results inconclusive. Read Brag's stuff

02-08-11, 12:41 PM	#2
BigRich Sailor man Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 50 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	In my experience, during daylight and especially good weather, your scope is likely to be spotted if you are close to an enemy ship. The higher out the water your scope is then the more likely it is to get seen and fired on. At night, provided you don't alert the enemy escorts by making too much noise, or attacking something, you can sail around with your scope up and you should be okay. However, once you have launched an attack and the enemy knows roughly where you are then they will play their searchlights around you and if your scope is spotted, shot at again. Even in rough weather at night with the waves breaking over your scope, it's still visible if they lock their searchlights onto your position.

02-08-11, 03:39 PM	#3
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	I'm not sure but I think the movement/speed of your boat would also be a factor because of the 'scope's wake, especially in calmer waters where there's no chop to provide even a little "camo" for it. It would be a concern in RL, obviously, but I'm not sure if the game models this. In RL a u-boat would be limiting its speed with the 'scope up anyway, because anything above 3-4 knots (IIRC) would make using the 'scope at all a dicey proposition; but the game doesn't reflect that, so it is possible to go full/flank speed submerged with the 'scope up and in theory this would increase the wake. But again I don't know if the game's AI is going to pick up on that or not.

02-08-11, 03:48 PM	#4
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Detection is solely based on what the AI Visual can spot. From GWX: Enemy surface factor=350 ;[m2] That's meters squared. 350 meters is quit a lot but there are Game Engine factors involved. We can not tell the Engine that some objects are outside this factor. A scope should be harder to spot as it nowhere nears the 350 meters mark. But We can not change that effect without very serious side effects. As an example: Working on self-diving Subs for SH3 I edited this value to solve some issues with the test Sub. That fixed the problem but introduced many other problems. Those problems broke the Game.

02-08-11, 04:07 PM	#5
danexpat Mate Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Wherever you hear the grinding of a DD hull on a U-boat Posts: 60 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I just fitted my scope with a little rubber Loch Ness Monster head. The enemy ship crews just point and take pictures now but don't open fire.