Why bother attacking convoys???

[4saken]

I know its very exciting to get a report or even spot a convoy,the multiple hydrophone reports,the anticipation etc etc.
But once you decide to attack it its another story...

I usually get spotted by the DD but even if I don't, I manage to hit max 2 ships (usually 2 torps each) and then you have to deal with at least 2-3 escorts.
It will take some hours getting rid of them (if you ever do that is) and then get back to the convoy and attack again.

For me it seems a better option to attack single merchants than attack alone a big convoy.At least I can survive longer in the Atlantic.

On the other hand I always try to attack them if sea is deep enough (100 meters and more).Can't resist!

Maybe I am not good enough dunno...It's still March '40 and it looks difficult can't imagine how it will be in couple of years.

Regarding DD what's a safe distance when you are running in diesels?i usually try to be at around 8 km away...

Same here, just happened, I finally got fed up with the DDs and did my favorite attack manuever on them and sunk 2 out of the 5, then snuck in the convoy, surfaced, (at night) only to get over 20 lights trained on me, guns blazing, star shells in the air, as I went to dive DDs weaving through the convoy to sink me with Depth Charges!! fml.

[maillemaker]

Why bother attacking convoys???

Congratulations - this is precisely the thought that the allies wanted to put into the minds of German u-boat commanders!

[4saken]

Originally Posted by maillemaker

[/B]

Congratulations - this is precisely the thought that the allies wanted to put into the minds of German u-boat commanders!

Fair enough...
Why bother attacking convoys alone when you can't attack them as a part of a wolf pack...

As a U-Boat captain, BdU expects you to find and attack convoys. At least one captain was condemned as a coward and sentenced to be shot for consistantly failing to do so (KL Heinz Hirsacker U-572).

http://uboat.net/men/commanders/495.html

SH3 is a bit more forgiving than real life and if you choose to hunt stragglers and lone ships and avoid convoys completely, there is nobody to know but yourself. An effective captain tries to select fights he has a reasonable prospect of winning.

Personally I find stalking convoys a challenge, even in 1944 and 45, but then I seldom get more than two late-war patrols out of a career without getting sunk along the way...

Why bother attacking convoys alone when you can't attack them as a part of a wolf pack...

There were very very few cooperative U-Boat attacks in the Atlantic and a close reading of the narratives of convoy battles shows that most attacks were sequential and uncoordinated. There were execptions of course and where boats struck simultaneously it proved the best means to overwhelm the escorts but it did not happen all that frequently according to the records. Most convoy battles were, from any single boat's perspective, a pretty solitary activity regardless of the number of boats 'in contact'.

[Tessa]

As the war goes on finding lone ships becomes very scarce. Attacking a convoy in relatively shallow waters is a pretty difficult task, its much easier to evade the escorts when you can dive below 200m. Once you hear the depth charges drop the time lag gives you considerable time to manuever. Escorts will hit the throttle once they drop their charges allowing you to temporarily move around at flank speed with relative safety that you can't be detected (passively, active is always hard to evade in any scenario) and evade them (in shallow water).

Your only other alternative is to go harbor raiding, you'll always be in shallow water making it difficult or sometimes impossible to shake a DD overhead (usually have to wait for them to runout of charges (which can take hours in real time), get them to blow themselves up from not accelarating after dropping their charges (basically box them into a corner where you are close enough for them to go after you but too far away to get hit) or to sit and wait for the time that you can actually get a good shot lined up to sink them). Everyone here has their own opinions on harbor raids; though one aspect I think all would agree upon is that you have to really master shallow water maneuvering/tactics to become really successfull with harbor raids and come out alive.

[Gargamel]

Why you ask?

It's target choice. It's a buyers market in a convoy.

While hunting lone ducks, you have to take what you get. Passing on small fish targets can mean weeks of extra patrol time waiting for the juicy targets, which may never come.

In a convoy, you can create an order of battle, a target priority list if you will, and you can decide how many attacks you can make to achieve your goal.

You drop into the Convoy, pick your targets, fire the eels, and drop to the ocean floor. You get to choose which ships your going to sink. And if your inside the middle of the pack, you have extra time cause the escorts can't get to you real quick, maybe allowing you to fire off another salvo, or evade quicker. My most thrilling time is inside a convoy, knife fighting with all the ships.

And sometimes, you cna find real gems at the heart of a convoy. Battleships, carriers, Ocean liners all frequent those convoys.

My first patrol of this career, I slaughtered a convoy, 100k tonnes in one convoy sunk. The thrill of that type of performance is why I attack convoys.

I also find waiting for lone ships to be quite boring. I dont mind evading escorts, I find that fun too, gut wrenching at times, but fun.


Historically, you have to attack convoys because thats where the majority of Allied shipping was. Anything of value was placed in a convoy or a high speed ship.

[JEuler]

Attacking convoys is the essence of the game!
Preparing the attack,getting in position,hitting a ship,the cat and mouse game,the thrill you feel...
Of course you can't be successful always,but you will try again and again and again...
Attacking single merchants is ok,and the only way to survive '43 onward.

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

As a U-Boat captain, BdU expects you to find and attack convoys. At least one captain was condemned as a coward and sentenced to be shot for consistantly failing to do so (KL Heinz Hirsacker U-572).

http://uboat.net/men/commanders/495.html

SH3 is a bit more forgiving than real life and if you choose to hunt stragglers and lone ships and avoid convoys completely, there is nobody to know but yourself. An effective captain tries to select fights he has a reasonable prospect of winning.

Personally I find stalking convoys a challenge, even in 1944 and 45, but then I seldom get more than two late-war patrols out of a career without getting sunk along the way...

Additionally commanders that came back from a patrol having sunk nothing (except in cases of mechanical failure or getting critically damaged close to/shortly after leaving port) were usually relieved of command of their ship and got reassigned. Coming back with 0 sinkings was the end of several captains careers, upon return they were never given a command at sea again. Unless you had mechanical failures en route to your patrol and were forced to abort very few commanders that completed patrols having come back with 0 sinkings (and sometime not firing a single torpedo) ever got to go back out to sea again.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by 4saken

I know its very exciting to get a report or even spot a convoy,the multiple hydrophone reports,the anticipation etc etc.
But once you decide to attack it its another story...

I usually get spotted by the DD but even if I don't, I manage to hit max 2 ships (usually 2 torps each) and then you have to deal with at least 2-3 escorts.
It will take some hours getting rid of them (if you ever do that is) and then get back to the convoy and attack again.

For me it seems a better option to attack single merchants than attack alone a big convoy.At least I can survive longer in the Atlantic.

On the other hand I always try to attack them if sea is deep enough (100 meters and more).Can't resist!

Maybe I am not good enough dunno...It's still March '40 and it looks difficult can't imagine how it will be in couple of years.

The thing about convoys that really I hate is that dreaded savegame bug. It takes numerous attacks to get into position, snipe the juicy targets inside it (from the sides), loose the DDs and then repeat that process. If it's getting late and I feel tired I am forced to break contact with it, meaning you have to seperate to about 40km away. Or else the savegame might get corrupt. So that usually means I play it deep into the night, and sometimes have to leave it paused running on my computer until the next day. Other than that I love convoys. Just my kind of patience game. I would take any single target that I meet. But unless you're in the busy areas you might get very bored inbetween.

Regarding DD what's a safe distance when you are running in diesels? i usually try to be at around 8 km away...

It depends on the time of day. 8 km in the night should be really safe, unless they have radar. Which they shouldn't have in March '40. Daytime would be too close. And it surely depends on if you play stock or mods. I'm speaking from experience with GWX, with the 16km OLC Environment.

[Jack Cutter]

I have my hesitations about convoy attacks as well. Sometimes it does feel like it's not worth it, especially since you'll likely only hit one or two ships maximum at a time, and then spend four hours being depth charged by four destroyers.

BUT--If you figure the likelihood of destroyers finding you at deep depths is very low, especially at silent running and if you're usuing evasive manuevering, those two ships you got could be well over 10,000 tons a piece that's 20,000 tons in just two ships. Now figure you evade those escorts, skirt the convoy and ambush again, and sink another two ships, and you can see how attacking a convoy pays off.

Also figure into the equation that you also damage ships...and they become stragglers. Then when the escorts take off again, you surface and deck gun the wounded down.

I hate the escorts...they really are a pain in every Kaleun's arse, but in the end with proper tactics that can be found here, you can make short work of evading them.

My most successful patrol only netted me 28K tons, and that was just in one hit of a convoy in water only 110 meters deep. Granted it was in 1940, but if I can evade destroyers in shallow water, any one should be able to net 50K+ tons!

My tactics are to intercept the convoy's route, putting myself ahead of them in an ambush position, slink in deep at silent running right underneath the escort screen, and come up to 'scope depth in the middle of the convoy...find your juicy targets (big freighters, tankers, carriers ect.) launch your eels at them, go deep and turn an opposite direction from the convoy, and those escorts will lose you. When the escorts break off to rejoin the convoy, come back and pick off the wounded or the stragglers, then reintercept. Rinse repeat sort of deal.

I'll admit that single unescorted merchants make me squeal like a little girl, but the true tonnage lies with the risks of escorted convoys.

I guess you kind of have to be a thrill seeker.

[Gargamel]

Originally Posted by Pisces

It depends on the time of day. 8 km in the night should be really safe, unless they have radar. Which they shouldn't have in March '40. Daytime would be too close. And it surely depends on if you play stock or mods. I'm speaking from experience with GWX, with the 16km OLC Environment.

Weather too. In real bad weather, you can just about spit on them before they see you. And vice versa in some instances. Had a near miss once that I was able to flank, hard turn, and get off a stern shot at close range before he even saw me.

[Axeman3d]

Is there a definitive list of when to expect radar on the convoy routes? In late 1940 I have been scared witless by a Flower class escort trying to ram me in horrendous weather when my men saw nothing until she was almost upon us. I tend to submerge the moment I see a ship now, trying to make sure it never sees me coming.

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by Jack Cutter

I have my hesitations about convoy attacks as well. Sometimes it does feel like it's not worth it, especially since you'll likely only hit one or two ships maximum at a time, and then spend four hours being depth charged by four destroyers.

BUT--If you figure the likelihood of destroyers finding you at deep depths is very low, especially at silent running and if you're usuing evasive manuevering, those two ships you got could be well over 10,000 tons a piece that's 20,000 tons in just two ships. Now figure you evade those escorts, skirt the convoy and ambush again, and sink another two ships, and you can see how attacking a convoy pays off.

Also figure into the equation that you also damage ships...and they become stragglers. Then when the escorts take off again, you surface and deck gun the wounded down.

I hate the escorts...they really are a pain in every Kaleun's arse, but in the end with proper tactics that can be found here, you can make short work of evading them.

My most successful patrol only netted me 28K tons, and that was just in one hit of a convoy in water only 110 meters deep. Granted it was in 1940, but if I can evade destroyers in shallow water, any one should be able to net 50K+ tons!

My tactics are to intercept the convoy's route, putting myself ahead of them in an ambush position, slink in deep at silent running right underneath the escort screen, and come up to 'scope depth in the middle of the convoy...find your juicy targets (big freighters, tankers, carriers ect.) launch your eels at them, go deep and turn an opposite direction from the convoy, and those escorts will lose you. When the escorts break off to rejoin the convoy, come back and pick off the wounded or the stragglers, then reintercept. Rinse repeat sort of deal.

I'll admit that single unescorted merchants make me squeal like a little girl, but the true tonnage lies with the risks of escorted convoys.

I guess you kind of have to be a thrill seeker.

Even if you're only able to get 5 or 6 shots off (depending on which type of ship you're using) and then dive deep you can still get some large tonnage from convoys. If say in the 5 shots one was a 1 hit sink, 1 hit and disabled propulsion making it a stragler to be left behind (and easy prey with the deck gun later), 1 hits but only slows down the ship 1 or 2 knots and the last misses you can still take advantage of the one crippled ship.

After you've evaded the escorts and/or the convoy is out of range for you to surface and reload its not too hard to shadow the same convoy and hit them again the next night (just hope its not a fast convoy else you're burn an enormous amount of fuel to get ahead of them into a good firing position) by manuevering yourself parrallel or ahead of the convoy and intercept them in darkness. If you can remember which ship you had already hit another eel into the side will likely sink it unless its something enormous (like a large troop ship or Cunard liner) and then get another shot at the convoy again and hopefully take 1 or 2 more down.

If you run into a convoy that's loaded with high value targets like tankers, BB or CV's, or Large Merchants/Heavy Cargo ships it is really worth the effort and time to harass the convoy for as long as you have fuel and torpedo's to use.

[Ducimus]

Why bother attacking convoys???

Yeah... why did I bother anyway? So boring.