Bramha's breath

Skybird · 11-27-10, 05:09 PM

Ruht ein Tal wie das Nichts zwischen Bergen

Ruht in der Leere des Wesens das Sein.

Der Urgrund der Leere ist immerdar,

Ihm entstammen die Dinge immerfort.
Der Urgrund der Leere, das Entstammen der Dinge –
Weil sie kein Selbst haben, währt ihr Sein,
Und sie wurden nicht, und müssen so nicht vergehen.

Often I am stunned when realising that modern science's cosmology and ancient concepts coming from Hinduism, Vedanta and Buddhism seem to merge in a common centre.

Science 1

Science 2

Philosophy 1

Philosophy 2

And even these far-reaching ideas do not answer the final questions, or the just one final question: WHY?

Believing it or not believing it, but surely it is: thought-provoking. How we could seriously assume the world is like we believe it is by judging it via our senses, is beyond me. And possibly we will always only learn and study and more and more understand HOW the things of the great show are functioning. Why is there something, anything at all? Why is there not just - nothing? But I think we will never know WHY. That is the mystery, and it holds both solace and terror at the same time - depending on how much we had for drinks, and what kind of mood we're in.

Are we dreaming our lives and worlds into existence - or is the cosmos dreaming us?

Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi.

Wolfehunter · 11-27-10, 05:18 PM

Its all but a nightmare Sky and when the universe wakes up we're just a memory..

Skybird · 11-27-10, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfehunter

Its all but a nightmare Sky and when the universe wakes up we're just a memory..

And I get called a nihilist!

11-27-10, 05:27 PM

Since we are unable to see beyond 13.5 billion years all speculation is just that, speculation. (like believing in God).

Rockstar · 11-27-10, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi.

Didn't the narrator here say it was Zhaungzi not the butterfly who went to sleep and dreamt? Wasn't it stated that it was Zhaungzi who had awoke suddenly and not the butterfly?

Quote:

But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi.

Now the narrator injects some drivel to lead the reader to think there is some hidden mystery of the universe to be solved. No mystery here, not if you read the first three sentences which positively I.D. the dreamer as Zhaungzi and not the butterfly.

Next time let Zhaungzi speak for himself.

Skybird · 11-28-10, 05:41 AM

I think it is even much easier than you imply, Rockstar, it is that you simply, for whatever your reason is, do not wish to allow, or better: to consider the point of the story. Because if dream and dreamer may be the same, or at least cannot be clearly identified regarding whom is who and what is what, than the usual separation between "me" and the "world", creation and a god having created it, is being questioned. Not to mention that the distinction between man and his assumed god that he claims to have created man) is beign questioned, too. I seem to remeber that you are a strong theistic believer. Theists have traditionally a big problem with the idea that maybe there is not the god they believe in and this god's creation, but that God IS the creation - and so God is me and you, and you and me are God, and all is one. That would turn worshipping this god into a narcissistic profanity, if we ourselves are fully divine and not just subordinate to the deity at the top of the food chain, and if we are not only parts of God, but are God it-/him-/herself. For such ideas I would have been burned at the stake for heresy just short times ago.

Such thinking threatens to let collapse the hole church-conception of good and evil and sinning and heaven and hell the very basis of it's earthly power over people and their minds. The ruling of the church always was the ruling by fear. So much for the Glad Tidings.

Sin is the avoidance of guilt, to escape the pain of realising one's own responsibility.

Hell is the pain of truth that sooner or later has caught up with the avoider.

11-27-10, 05:09 PM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Bramha's breath Ruht ein Tal wie das Nichts zwischen Bergen Ruht in der Leere des Wesens das Sein. Der Urgrund der Leere ist immerdar, Ihm entstammen die Dinge immerfort. Der Urgrund der Leere, das Entstammen der Dinge – Weil sie kein Selbst haben, währt ihr Sein, Und sie wurden nicht, und müssen so nicht vergehen. Often I am stunned when realising that modern science's cosmology and ancient concepts coming from Hinduism, Vedanta and Buddhism seem to merge in a common centre. Science 1 Science 2 Philosophy 1 Philosophy 2 And even these far-reaching ideas do not answer the final questions, or the just one final question: WHY? Believing it or not believing it, but surely it is: thought-provoking. How we could seriously assume the world is like we believe it is by judging it via our senses, is beyond me. And possibly we will always only learn and study and more and more understand HOW the things of the great show are functioning. Why is there something, anything at all? Why is there not just - nothing? But I think we will never know WHY. That is the mystery, and it holds both solace and terror at the same time - depending on how much we had for drinks, and what kind of mood we're in. Are we dreaming our lives and worlds into existence - or is the cosmos dreaming us? Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 11-27-10 at 05:19 PM.

11-27-10, 05:18 PM	#2
Wolfehunter Crusty Capt. Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,752 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 25	Its all but a nightmare Sky and when the universe wakes up we're just a memory.. __________________

11-28-10, 05:41 AM	#6
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I think it is even much easier than you imply, Rockstar, it is that you simply, for whatever your reason is, do not wish to allow, or better: to consider the point of the story. Because if dream and dreamer may be the same, or at least cannot be clearly identified regarding whom is who and what is what, than the usual separation between "me" and the "world", creation and a god having created it, is being questioned. Not to mention that the distinction between man and his assumed god that he claims to have created man) is beign questioned, too. I seem to remeber that you are a strong theistic believer. Theists have traditionally a big problem with the idea that maybe there is not the god they believe in and this god's creation, but that God IS the creation - and so God is me and you, and you and me are God, and all is one. That would turn worshipping this god into a narcissistic profanity, if we ourselves are fully divine and not just subordinate to the deity at the top of the food chain, and if we are not only parts of God, but are God it-/him-/herself. For such ideas I would have been burned at the stake for heresy just short times ago. Such thinking threatens to let collapse the hole church-conception of good and evil and sinning and heaven and hell the very basis of it's earthly power over people and their minds. The ruling of the church always was the ruling by fear. So much for the Glad Tidings. Sin is the avoidance of guilt, to escape the pain of realising one's own responsibility. Hell is the pain of truth that sooner or later has caught up with the avoider. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 11-28-10 at 05:54 AM.

11-27-10, 05:27 PM	#4
The Third Man Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Since we are unable to see beyond 13.5 billion years all speculation is just that, speculation. (like believing in God).