French Senate votes to ban Islamic full veil in public

Gerald · 09-14-10, 07:34 PM

France's Senate has overwhelmingly approved a bill that would ban wearing the Islamic full veil in public.

The proposed measure was already backed by the lower house of parliament, the National Assembly, in July.

The ban will come into force in six months' time if it is not overturned by constitutional judges.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11305033

Note: 14 September 2010 Last updated at 17:51 GMT

Bubblehead1980 · 09-14-10, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendor

France's Senate has overwhelmingly approved a bill that would ban wearing the Islamic full veil in public.

The proposed measure was already backed by the lower house of parliament, the National Assembly, in July.

The ban will come into force in six months' time if it is not overturned by constitutional judges.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11305033

Note: 14 September 2010 Last updated at 17:51 GMT

For once, I approve of the French!

Gerald · 09-14-10, 08:40 PM

I agree with you,

Sailor Steve · 09-14-10, 08:48 PM

Good for them! We'll see how it works out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

For once, I approve of the French!

I've approved of them since 1778.

Bubblehead1980 · 09-14-10, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Good for them! We'll see how it works out.

I've approved of them since 1778.

Of course, how could I forget, ok well I approve of their move to support the colonies.They have aggravated me a bit over the years though.

I once told a man from France the joke "what is the first thing they teach you in the French Army?" "how to say I surrender in German"

Always loved that one.Everyone but him found it funny lol.

Sailor Steve · 09-14-10, 09:01 PM

The whole French-bashing thing started in 2003 when they refused to support us on the Iraq resolutions. I like the jokes, but I agree with their reasons and their decision.

AngusJS · 09-14-10, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The whole French-bashing thing started in 2003 when they refused to support us on the Iraq resolutions. I like the jokes, but I agree with their reasons and their decision.

Every time I hear one of these jokes, I think of Verdun. Those cheese-eating frogs sure did fold there, didn't they!

Seriously, these jokes were stale in 2003.

Regarding the OP - the government shouldn't prevent a woman from wearing a burqa, just as it shouldn't prevent a woman from wearing short shorts.

If someone is forcing a woman to wear a burqa, the woman should leave that person.

Alex · 09-15-10, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

For once, I approve of the French!

@ Sailor Steve : Taking Castout's post in consideration,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

True friend is not the one who always agree with you but who is daring enough to tell you what he thinks it's right even when you wouldn't like it.

I must tell you in all honesty - yet friendly

- that those of us who're not conducting boot-licking foreign policy are still wondering what a part of our army is doing in the middle east, considering we already have problems with these people in HERE, in OUR country.

TLAM Strike · 09-14-10, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I've approved of them since 1778.

I've approved of them since they invented the Ménage à trois...

Ducimus · 09-14-10, 10:19 PM

Ummm...

Viva La France?

frau kaleun · 09-14-10, 09:06 PM

Well of course they did.

Because no matter what the alleged "problem" is, the best solution for it is to come up with yet another set of rules about what the wimmenz can and cannot do.

Honestly I don't know what the motivation behind the passage of this law was - if there's some supposed or actual legitimate public "health and safety" reason for it, or if it's a perverse attempt to force the "freedom" of walking around unveiled on these women whether they want it or not, or if its just another anti-Muslim thing pure and simple.

But really - what does it actually accomplish, other than taking away a woman's presumed right to wear or not wear something? The article says that the "niqab and burka are widely seen in France as threats to women's rights and the secular nature of the state."

As far as women's rights goes, let's be honest: assuming a woman who wears the items in question does so by her own free will, and is not doing so because she's afraid of what might happen to her if she doesn't, making it illegal for her to wear them is limiting her rights, not improving them.

And if a woman is wearing it because she's being required to do so by some other party who has the power to require it and make the requirement stick due to the amount of control over her they can exert... then my fear is that not allowing her to wear it in public will result in her becoming even more isolated from a world in which women actually have the freedom to make their own choices about these things. Because if someone else is controlling her so much that she is wearing the things even though she doesn't want to, they probably have enough control to keep her isolated if it's a choice between going out unveiled and not going out at all.

Personally I find the wearing of these things ridiculous, primarily because of the misogynist mindset that created the mandate in the first place, aside from any religious considerations. But that doesn't mean I get to meddle with someone else's right to acquiesce to that mandate so long as they are doing it freely. And when I say "freely," I mean in the absence of any real and present threat, not because they've been taught that it's right to wear it and have simply accepted it without question (so far).

Again - I don't think anyone has any way of knowing how this will play out in the lives of the individual women who are going to be affected by it. But I'm not gonna buy the "women's rights" angle when all they're doing is countering one set of restrictions limiting women's freedom to choose with another set of restrictions that do exactly the same thing. The way to improve the lot of women who live with nonsensical (to us) religious restrictions on their personal freedom is not to stick it to them from the secular side as well.

Sailor Steve · 09-14-10, 09:25 PM

Point taken. As hard as I try, I just can't seem to stop being "one of those".

tater · 09-14-10, 09:38 PM

The only people that wear masks in the civilized world—aside from during periods of frostbite inducing weather—are criminals.

If I would get hassled walking into a local bank wearing a ski mask or halloween mask on some random day here in ABQ, then a woman wearing a mask should expect the same treatment.

The veil and its use fall into 2 broad scenarios here in the west. One, they feel compelled to do so by male relatives and co-religionists. Two, they choose to wear it as a political statement (which is basically flipping the bird to the society that feeds them). I think neither are strong arguments for it in the face of the reality that males wearing masks would likely face many hassles in civilized society.

09-14-10, 07:34 PM	#1
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	French Senate votes to ban Islamic full veil in public France's Senate has overwhelmingly approved a bill that would ban wearing the Islamic full veil in public. The proposed measure was already backed by the lower house of parliament, the National Assembly, in July. The ban will come into force in six months' time if it is not overturned by constitutional judges. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11305033 Note: 14 September 2010 Last updated at 17:51 GMT __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

09-14-10, 08:40 PM	#3
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	I agree with you, __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

09-14-10, 09:01 PM	#6
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	The whole French-bashing thing started in 2003 when they refused to support us on the Iraq resolutions. I like the jokes, but I agree with their reasons and their decision. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

09-14-10, 09:06 PM	#11
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	Well of course they did. Because no matter what the alleged "problem" is, the best solution for it is to come up with yet another set of rules about what the wimmenz can and cannot do. Honestly I don't know what the motivation behind the passage of this law was - if there's some supposed or actual legitimate public "health and safety" reason for it, or if it's a perverse attempt to force the "freedom" of walking around unveiled on these women whether they want it or not, or if its just another anti-Muslim thing pure and simple. But really - what does it actually accomplish, other than taking away a woman's presumed right to wear or not wear something? The article says that the "niqab and burka are widely seen in France as threats to women's rights and the secular nature of the state." As far as women's rights goes, let's be honest: assuming a woman who wears the items in question does so by her own free will, and is not doing so because she's afraid of what might happen to her if she doesn't, making it illegal for her to wear them is limiting her rights, not improving them. And if a woman is wearing it because she's being required to do so by some other party who has the power to require it and make the requirement stick due to the amount of control over her they can exert... then my fear is that not allowing her to wear it in public will result in her becoming even more isolated from a world in which women actually have the freedom to make their own choices about these things. Because if someone else is controlling her so much that she is wearing the things even though she doesn't want to, they probably have enough control to keep her isolated if it's a choice between going out unveiled and not going out at all. Personally I find the wearing of these things ridiculous, primarily because of the misogynist mindset that created the mandate in the first place, aside from any religious considerations. But that doesn't mean I get to meddle with someone else's right to acquiesce to that mandate so long as they are doing it freely. And when I say "freely," I mean in the absence of any real and present threat, not because they've been taught that it's right to wear it and have simply accepted it without question (so far). Again - I don't think anyone has any way of knowing how this will play out in the lives of the individual women who are going to be affected by it. But I'm not gonna buy the "women's rights" angle when all they're doing is countering one set of restrictions limiting women's freedom to choose with another set of restrictions that do exactly the same thing. The way to improve the lot of women who live with nonsensical (to us) religious restrictions on their personal freedom is not to stick it to them from the secular side as well. Last edited by frau kaleun; 09-14-10 at 09:18 PM.

09-14-10, 09:25 PM	#12
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Point taken. As hard as I try, I just can't seem to stop being "one of those". __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

09-14-10, 10:19 PM	#10
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Ummm... Viva La France?

09-14-10, 09:38 PM	#13
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The only people that wear masks in the civilized world—aside from during periods of frostbite inducing weather—are criminals. If I would get hassled walking into a local bank wearing a ski mask or halloween mask on some random day here in ABQ, then a woman wearing a mask should expect the same treatment. The veil and its use fall into 2 broad scenarios here in the west. One, they feel compelled to do so by male relatives and co-religionists. Two, they choose to wear it as a political statement (which is basically flipping the bird to the society that feeds them). I think neither are strong arguments for it in the face of the reality that males wearing masks would likely face many hassles in civilized society.