Whats the deal with weapons officer assistant, torpedoes?

fastfed · 09-10-10, 02:14 PM

Couple questions here..

I would like to start my next career with some more realism.. I am working my way right now but at 61% realism.. I have external camera on, but only use it to see ships going down, or explore my own sub (never to cheat)

But I also have auto targeting on, I still try my best to line my targets up properly, adjust the depth and fire away. sometimes aiming for the bow or the rear of the ship.

I noticed a button for the weapons officer, to get a solution to the target.. Now, this is my question.. If I do not have auto target on, but weapons office assistant on, do I line up my shot and then click that button, and depending on his experience, he will do all the work for me (I assume the better he is the more accurate) ??

This will be for my next career and then after I will like to join the club of full manual..

THANKS GUYS!

Sailor Steve · 09-10-10, 04:31 PM

It's kind of a half-cheat. With Manual Targeting on, and WE Assistance on, you lock on to the target, then click his icon. Three new buttons pop up. Click the first one and he IDs the target. Click the second and he puts in all the information for you. Click the third and he takes the shot.

The good news is that it feels more real, since the solution is only good for that immediate moment, and quickly fades. The bad news is that he's just as accurate as auto targeting. Good news? No triangles. Bad news? The solution is instant and perfect, every time.

The only advantage I get out of it is that it feels better than full auto. I wish SH4 had it, and I wish it wasn't so perfect.

raymond6751 · 09-10-10, 04:39 PM

Guys...we spend so much time hunting targets that letting one get away seems criminal. I've missed too many. To heck with crew morale, mine is shot.

I now let the crew (realistically) figure out the solution and I watch the fireworks.

I never was much good at math.

Kapt Z · 09-10-10, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

It's kind of a half-cheat. With Manual Targeting on, and WE Assistance on, you lock on to the target, then click his icon. Three new buttons pop up. Click the first one and he IDs the target. Click the second and he puts in all the information for you. Click the third and he takes the shot.

The good news is that it feels more real, since the solution is only good for that immediate moment, and quickly fades. The bad news is that he's just as accurate as auto targeting. Good news? No triangles. Bad news? The solution is instant and perfect, every time.

The only advantage I get out of it is that it feels better than full auto. I wish SH4 had it, and I wish it wasn't so perfect.

IIRC in the original SH even the auto had a percentage of accuracy meter. You could get a solution immediately, but the more time you spent locked onto the target the better the accuracy of the solution.

It would be nice to have something like that with the weapons officer assistance.

Weiss Pinguin · 09-10-10, 06:53 PM

I used to play with Weps assist, but that was too arcadey for my tastes, turned convoy attacks into turkey shoots

Now I play with full manual targeting, using the stock GWX interface.

fastfed · 09-10-10, 09:18 PM

Did anyone possible make a Video tutorial for manual TDC control?

I have read some stuff, but like many I take to visuals much better..

I wouldn't mind giving it a try..

PS. THE TDC for the germans, was it the same as for the Americans?

I remember watching a show on youtube (Silent Service, its great by the way) and they stated how great it was when the got the TDC and how hard it was to invent and the guy who invented it was a genius.. So.. How did the Germans get this?

Was it better for the Americans or the Germans in terms of quality and technology ..

Thanks guys

Sailor Steve · 09-10-10, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapt Z

IIRC in the original SH even the auto had a percentage of accuracy meter. You could get a solution immediately, but the more time you spent locked onto the target the better the accuracy of the solution.

It would be nice to have something like that with the weapons officer assistance.

And the further away you were or the worse the weather, the worse the solution became, so long shots were iffy even in auto.

K-61 · 09-10-10, 11:14 PM

Aces of the Deep was auto targeting only, but not 100% foolproof. The longer you locked on, the better the solution, but you could still miss even with an "ideal" setup. The accuracy of targeting was also affected by crew experience.

How does SH5 handle it?

Capt. Morgan · 09-11-10, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastfed

Did anyone possible make a Video tutorial for manual TDC control?

Go to the Skippers Bag of Tricks thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795) and have a look at Rockin Robins "Dick O'Kane Manual Targeting" vid. A very easy and accurate manual targeting method.

Then check out WernerSobe's excellent Basic and Advanced TDC/PK vids for a full, clear example of how to conduct a manual TDC attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastfed

... PS. THE TDC for the germans, was it the same as for the Americans? ...Was it better for the Americans or the Germans in terms of quality and technology ..

The targeting computers were different, and as to the nature of the differences, there are plenty of real experts here who can inform you better (and argue more entertainingly over which is superior) than I. That said, FWIW,...

The American one allowed the submarine to manoeuvre freely once the solution had been setup - and still maintain the solution (providing the target kept to its course and speed). In practice it required periodic updating (as it does in the game) to maintain an accurate solution over time. This was the "PK or Position Keeper".

The German computer lacked this capability. In-game, the German targeting computer has the AOB and Bearing settings locked together (Not sure about real life). This makes targeting multiple ships in one attack an almost "point and shoot" technique if the target is a convoy (all ships-same speed and course) and the attack is of the "fast 90" variety (range not a factor). I also find it less unwieldy than the American TDC for quick snap-shots.

Tessa · 09-11-10, 05:54 AM

If you really want to get into manual targetting I'd suggest trying a different gui than the stock one, there's a number of others out there that while they don't give you the answer, make it quicker to get the information and don't require you to sit there with pencil and paper doing all the trigonometry yourself. Most of the manual gui's have the OLC as the foundation, and different functionality added or different panels shown on the attack scope/UZO. Would still keep the weps officer around unless you don't have any desire to try and take down escorts that are actively hunting you. Only way I've found to semi-reliably take out escorts in these situations is wait until they just pass the 300m range from you and fire a steam torpedo at max speed at em. Its just the minimum range needed for the torpedo to arm and with ~12-15 seconds most escorts can't change course enough to avoid getting hit somewhere; once the acoustic/homing torpedoes become available its a very good way of getting rid of them with a single shot about 7 times out of 10.

K-61 · 09-11-10, 01:47 PM

What does "OLC" mean? I keep seeing the term here but have no idea what it means.

Capt. Morgan · 09-11-10, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-61

What does "OLC" mean? I keep seeing the term here but have no idea what it means.

onelifecrisis, author of the OLC alternative GUI for SH3 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147667).

Many of the other GUI's are variations on OLC

Schöneboom · 09-11-10, 03:00 PM

I've devised my own compromise with Weps Officer assistance and "EZ manual" targeting (the 3 stage "notepad" method). When a target is sighted while surfaced, I have the W/O work out a firing solution with the UZO binoculars. For surface shots only, he does all the hard work. At the last second I'll just unlock the target to aim for the forward mast.

The W/O's solution is helpful even after I dive for a submerged attack, for now I have the target speed, and from that I can tell if my notepad solutions are "in the ballpark". Even so, with the notepad method, making adjustments till the target speed is right, the eel will hit most, not all the time, often not at the spot I expect. For ex., the stern instead of the bow. But that's pretty realistic to me, especially in rough seas.

Gute Jagd!

09-10-10, 02:14 PM	#1
fastfed Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 786 Downloads: 254 Uploads: 0	Whats the deal with weapons officer assistant, torpedoes? Couple questions here.. I would like to start my next career with some more realism.. I am working my way right now but at 61% realism.. I have external camera on, but only use it to see ships going down, or explore my own sub (never to cheat) But I also have auto targeting on, I still try my best to line my targets up properly, adjust the depth and fire away. sometimes aiming for the bow or the rear of the ship. I noticed a button for the weapons officer, to get a solution to the target.. Now, this is my question.. If I do not have auto target on, but weapons office assistant on, do I line up my shot and then click that button, and depending on his experience, he will do all the work for me (I assume the better he is the more accurate) ?? This will be for my next career and then after I will like to join the club of full manual.. THANKS GUYS!

09-10-10, 04:31 PM	#2
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	It's kind of a half-cheat. With Manual Targeting on, and WE Assistance on, you lock on to the target, then click his icon. Three new buttons pop up. Click the first one and he IDs the target. Click the second and he puts in all the information for you. Click the third and he takes the shot. The good news is that it feels more real, since the solution is only good for that immediate moment, and quickly fades. The bad news is that he's just as accurate as auto targeting. Good news? No triangles. Bad news? The solution is instant and perfect, every time. The only advantage I get out of it is that it feels better than full auto. I wish SH4 had it, and I wish it wasn't so perfect. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

09-10-10, 04:39 PM	#3
raymond6751 Admirable Mike Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,338 Downloads: 421 Uploads: 0	I like the big bangs. Guys...we spend so much time hunting targets that letting one get away seems criminal. I've missed too many. To heck with crew morale, mine is shot. I now let the crew (realistically) figure out the solution and I watch the fireworks. I never was much good at math. __________________ Game Designer: Close The Atlantic - World War Three https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/...orld-war-three

09-10-10, 06:53 PM	#5
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	I used to play with Weps assist, but that was too arcadey for my tastes, turned convoy attacks into turkey shoots Now I play with full manual targeting, using the stock GWX interface. __________________

09-10-10, 11:14 PM	#8
K-61 Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 795 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Aces of the Deep was auto targeting only, but not 100% foolproof. The longer you locked on, the better the solution, but you could still miss even with an "ideal" setup. The accuracy of targeting was also affected by crew experience. How does SH5 handle it? __________________

09-10-10, 09:18 PM	#6
fastfed Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 786 Downloads: 254 Uploads: 0	Did anyone possible make a Video tutorial for manual TDC control? I have read some stuff, but like many I take to visuals much better.. I wouldn't mind giving it a try.. PS. THE TDC for the germans, was it the same as for the Americans? I remember watching a show on youtube (Silent Service, its great by the way) and they stated how great it was when the got the TDC and how hard it was to invent and the guy who invented it was a genius.. So.. How did the Germans get this? Was it better for the Americans or the Germans in terms of quality and technology .. Thanks guys

09-11-10, 05:54 AM	#10
Tessa Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: CG 96 Posts: 861 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	If you really want to get into manual targetting I'd suggest trying a different gui than the stock one, there's a number of others out there that while they don't give you the answer, make it quicker to get the information and don't require you to sit there with pencil and paper doing all the trigonometry yourself. Most of the manual gui's have the OLC as the foundation, and different functionality added or different panels shown on the attack scope/UZO. Would still keep the weps officer around unless you don't have any desire to try and take down escorts that are actively hunting you. Only way I've found to semi-reliably take out escorts in these situations is wait until they just pass the 300m range from you and fire a steam torpedo at max speed at em. Its just the minimum range needed for the torpedo to arm and with ~12-15 seconds most escorts can't change course enough to avoid getting hit somewhere; once the acoustic/homing torpedoes become available its a very good way of getting rid of them with a single shot about 7 times out of 10.

09-11-10, 01:47 PM	#11
K-61 Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 795 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	What does "OLC" mean? I keep seeing the term here but have no idea what it means. __________________

09-11-10, 03:00 PM	#13
Schöneboom Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 651 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	I've devised my own compromise with Weps Officer assistance and "EZ manual" targeting (the 3 stage "notepad" method). When a target is sighted while surfaced, I have the W/O work out a firing solution with the UZO binoculars. For surface shots only, he does all the hard work. At the last second I'll just unlock the target to aim for the forward mast. The W/O's solution is helpful even after I dive for a submerged attack, for now I have the target speed, and from that I can tell if my notepad solutions are "in the ballpark". Even so, with the notepad method, making adjustments till the target speed is right, the eel will hit most, not all the time, often not at the spot I expect. For ex., the stern instead of the bow. But that's pretty realistic to me, especially in rough seas. Gute Jagd! __________________ Dietrich Schöneboom, U-431 "Es wird klappen, Herr Kaleun. Ganz sicher."