Merchants have too many hitpoints?

gimpy117 · 03-14-10, 01:32 AM

when is it true that 3 torpedos can sink a King George the 5th class but it cant kill a liberty ship/large steamer??

i mean im happy i sunk a battleship with 3 eels but really? i really wanna stop pumping torpedo after torpedo into those merchants!

remowilliams · 03-14-10, 01:58 AM

Upgrade the torpedoman's Warhead Specialist and Preheat abilities to max and you won't need more than two eels (and maybe a few deck gun rounds) to sink any merchant.

And you'll need the Morale Mod since the morale system is extremely broken. :P

Decoman · 03-14-10, 02:33 AM

The notion of hitpoints has alienated me from the game, among other things.

I thought the damage inflicted on a ship depended on the structure of the ship, where a torpedo or shell might inflict critical damage depending on exactly where it hit. And then I imainged that there would be another system for sorting out flooding.

Does SH5 not have a decent damage system? I am confused

remowilliams · 03-14-10, 02:46 AM

Flooding is definitely figured in. I've seen many a ship sink after taking torpedo damage and then taking on water. There are still some stupid things going on with damaged ships sailing on however.

kittelmann · 03-14-10, 03:34 AM

But flooding is not nearly as important as raw hit points in SH5. In SH3 it felt like 50% of the ships would sink due to flooding, in SH5 perhaps 10% sinks from flooding. To see a merchant with 2 1 meter holes through the hull hardly affected from flooding feels a bit strange.

jwilliams · 03-14-10, 03:55 AM

SH3 GWX most ships sunk from flooding. took along time (which is how it should be), but it sunk.

I havent seen a ship sink from flooding in SH5. Even with 3 torpedo holes in it. I waited 2 hrs (TC) and it just sat there. Didnt even list.

So i fired the deck gun at it. One hit and it went boom, broke in half, and then sank.

Not realistic IMO.

ShadowWolf Kell · 03-14-10, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwilliams

SH3 GWX most ships sunk from flooding. took along time (which is how it should be), but it sunk.

I havent seen a ship sink from flooding in SH5. Even with 3 torpedo holes in it. I waited 2 hrs (TC) and it just sat there. Didnt even list.

So i fired the deck gun at it. One hit and it went boom, broke in half, and then sank.

Not realistic IMO.

I've had similar experiences. In SH4 with Operation Monsun installed, it was all too frequent to mortally wound a ship, but it'd take hours to sink. I'm used to waiting around the area for 4-8 hours so the escorts are well out of range if I decide to use the deck gun to finish them off. In SH4 most would eventually sink on their own.

I've yet to see that happen to a single ship in SH5. I've tried various ways too. Keel shots. Rudder shots. Rudder + Bow shots. It seems like no matter what, flooding doesn't seem to occur on it's own in SH5.

It's like dud torpedos. I haven't seen any of those either.

jwilliams · 03-14-10, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowWolf Kell

It's like dud torpedos. I haven't seen any of those either.

I've seen one dud torpedo. About my 12th torpedo fired in total. it was just running in circles. I had to hit Crash Dive to prevent it from hitting me. So i can confirm Duds are in the game, they just dont happen very often. Unlike real torpedos during WWII.

msxyz · 03-14-10, 04:26 AM

In SH games it's largely zone dependant. Torpedoes in the bow portion of the ship seems to be unable to sink it from flooding.

Damage the stern portion of the ships with 2-3 torpedoes and they will eventually go down; if you save and reload you'll have a crippled unsinkable ship that requires more damage to be put out for good.

Turm · 03-14-10, 07:11 AM

Agreed, it's currently quite silly.

Twice, I've put 2 torpedoes into a merchant, set the whole thing ablaze, and it sailed on merrily with the rest of the ships (but DDs chased me off).

Twice, I've put a single torpedo into a ship and the same was true.

However, then I had the opportunity to surface inside the convoy of 9 unescorted ships...

... and with the deck gun I sank 7 of those 9 - the first kills of my patrol, because the torpedoes are rather useless!

I don't mind a ship taking 2-3 torpedoes to sink since it would be more realistic in some cases, but the deck gun seems a far better choice at the moment, when possible

Yak · 03-14-10, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Upgrade the torpedoman's Warhead Specialist and Preheat abilities to max and you won't need more than two eels (and maybe a few deck gun rounds) to sink any merchant.

And you'll need the Morale Mod since the morale system is extremely broken. :P

You're kidding right?

Mud · 03-14-10, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak

You're kidding right?

I´m affraid not, I didn´t upgrade my torpedo man yet.
It feels like cheating and far from realistic.

Mud

Noren · 03-14-10, 07:43 AM

Naw, he's not. Upgrades make your torpedoes a lot more potent. Its really laugable, extra range I coulde comply with but explosive powah? noooo....

Its a shame we dont get beautiful under-keel shoots anymore. Those kind of shockwaves could rip up anything from underneath, now thats physics at play in the real world!

reaper7 · 03-14-10, 07:50 AM

Have you tried the critical hits Torpedo mod yet. I usuall yonly require a single torp to take down merchants as the flooding mechanism appears to work properly in the mod. Merchants health bar may me half full but fire and flooding usually end up sinking them.

szultz · 03-14-10, 07:55 AM

Upgrading torpedomans abilities changes also torpedoes speed which besides being unrealistic breaks torpedo targeting, as game does not compensate for speed increase in calculations, in manual targeting mode or in auto.
I recommend using torpedo critical hits mod instead (can be found in mods section), if you want bigger booms. It also fixes flooding somewhat, because flooding isn't triggered unless damage is high enough.

03-14-10, 01:32 AM	#1
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	Merchants have too many hitpoints? when is it true that 3 torpedos can sink a King George the 5th class but it cant kill a liberty ship/large steamer?? i mean im happy i sunk a battleship with 3 eels but really? i really wanna stop pumping torpedo after torpedo into those merchants! __________________ Member of the Subsim Zombie Army

03-14-10, 03:55 AM	#6
jwilliams Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,013 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	SH3 GWX most ships sunk from flooding. took along time (which is how it should be), but it sunk. I havent seen a ship sink from flooding in SH5. Even with 3 torpedo holes in it. I waited 2 hrs (TC) and it just sat there. Didnt even list. So i fired the deck gun at it. One hit and it went boom, broke in half, and then sank. Not realistic IMO. __________________ Windows 7, 64bit. Phenom II 965BE (OC 4cores @ 3.8 Ghz). Radeon HD4870 (1gb gddr5). 6gb Ram.

03-14-10, 04:26 AM	#9
msxyz Engineer Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 218 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	In SH games it's largely zone dependant. Torpedoes in the bow portion of the ship seems to be unable to sink it from flooding. Damage the stern portion of the ships with 2-3 torpedoes and they will eventually go down; if you save and reload you'll have a crippled unsinkable ship that requires more damage to be put out for good. __________________ ...Sinking deeper into the cold, dark oceans of life

03-14-10, 01:58 AM	#2
remowilliams Loader Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 90 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Upgrade the torpedoman's Warhead Specialist and Preheat abilities to max and you won't need more than two eels (and maybe a few deck gun rounds) to sink any merchant. And you'll need the Morale Mod since the morale system is extremely broken. :P

03-14-10, 02:33 AM	#3
Decoman Frogman Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 306 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	The notion of hitpoints has alienated me from the game, among other things. I thought the damage inflicted on a ship depended on the structure of the ship, where a torpedo or shell might inflict critical damage depending on exactly where it hit. And then I imainged that there would be another system for sorting out flooding. Does SH5 not have a decent damage system? I am confused

03-14-10, 02:46 AM	#4
remowilliams Loader Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 90 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Flooding is definitely figured in. I've seen many a ship sink after taking torpedo damage and then taking on water. There are still some stupid things going on with damaged ships sailing on however.

03-14-10, 03:34 AM	#5
kittelmann Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	But flooding is not nearly as important as raw hit points in SH5. In SH3 it felt like 50% of the ships would sink due to flooding, in SH5 perhaps 10% sinks from flooding. To see a merchant with 2 1 meter holes through the hull hardly affected from flooding feels a bit strange.

03-14-10, 07:11 AM	#10
Turm Engineer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Midlands, UK Posts: 210 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Agreed, it's currently quite silly. Twice, I've put 2 torpedoes into a merchant, set the whole thing ablaze, and it sailed on merrily with the rest of the ships (but DDs chased me off). Twice, I've put a single torpedo into a ship and the same was true. However, then I had the opportunity to surface inside the convoy of 9 unescorted ships... ... and with the deck gun I sank 7 of those 9 - the first kills of my patrol, because the torpedoes are rather useless! I don't mind a ship taking 2-3 torpedoes to sink since it would be more realistic in some cases, but the deck gun seems a far better choice at the moment, when possible

03-14-10, 07:43 AM	#13
Noren 中国水兵 Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 284 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Naw, he's not. Upgrades make your torpedoes a lot more potent. Its really laugable, extra range I coulde comply with but explosive powah? noooo.... Its a shame we dont get beautiful under-keel shoots anymore. Those kind of shockwaves could rip up anything from underneath, now thats physics at play in the real world!

03-14-10, 07:50 AM	#14
reaper7 sim2reality Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: AM 82 Posts: 2,280 Downloads: 258 Uploads: 30	Have you tried the critical hits Torpedo mod yet. I usuall yonly require a single torp to take down merchants as the flooding mechanism appears to work properly in the mod. Merchants health bar may me half full but fire and flooding usually end up sinking them.

03-14-10, 07:55 AM	#15
szultz Swabbie Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 12 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	Upgrading torpedomans abilities changes also torpedoes speed which besides being unrealistic breaks torpedo targeting, as game does not compensate for speed increase in calculations, in manual targeting mode or in auto. I recommend using torpedo critical hits mod instead (can be found in mods section), if you want bigger booms. It also fixes flooding somewhat, because flooding isn't triggered unless damage is high enough.