AI Wolfpacks?

hachiman · 08-22-09, 06:32 PM

Hi

Any chance we might get AI wolfpacks in the single player campaign?

Thanx

gdogghenrikson · 08-22-09, 11:12 PM

Im not getting my hopes up

JU_88 · 08-23-09, 04:16 AM

IMHO It would be travasty if they neglected this for the third time in a row.

Everyone keeps saying 'Wolfpacks' but what we need is an AI routine for NPC submarines.
Once they have been granted 'a brain' (so they know what the hell they are doing in the SH5 would) - NPC Uboats or Enermy subs can simply be dumped in to the campaign like any other unit.

How hard can it be to Code some decent AI for submarines? (along with Torpedo controller)
Not too hard - but I appreciate they would require slighly more complex routines than say - Escorts.
Subs however need to be told, when to dive, when to surface, when to try and attack & when to do a runner etc.

In the past modders have applied merchant? AI routines to NPC subs, so they can at least follow way points, shoot at stuff with their guns and zig-zag. Its Better than nothing but its far from ideal.
Several talented modders tried to make a frankenstien AI Torpedo controller and some made actual progress before hitting a brick wall.

In SH3 when asked about Ai subs & wolfpacks, the devs said 'No but maybe in the next version'
..then they said the same in SH4...

So fingers crossed this time.

Annatar · 08-23-09, 05:25 AM

Wolfpacks are my personal dealbreaker this time. Graphics aren't terribly important to me, first person perspective isn't particularly important to me. These things are nice, don't get me wrong, but it'll feel like we're just treading water if after all this time we still can't get some AI boats.

08-23-09, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annatar

Wolfpacks are my personal dealbreaker this time.

Could not agree more!

Im dissapointed by Ubisoft. SH3 was a bad joke and SH4 was even worse. For me only the Mods, especially GWX made SH3 worth the money...

If they dont get it right this time, Im totally done with Ubisoft´s products.

JU_88 · 08-23-09, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Could not agree more!

Im dissapointed by Ubisoft. SH3 was a bad joke and SH4 was even worse. For me only the Mods, especially GWX made SH3 worth the money...

If they dont get it right this time, Im totally done with Ubisoft´s products.

Now now, SH3 was still a good game, even out of the box. Fair enough it was an Silent Hunter 'comeback' title and had to built from the ground up including the game engine (hence the looooong develpment time)
Sh4 was rushed out the door somewhat, bar the graphical improvments, it was really no better or worse than SH3 overal in terms of gameplay, I rate them about equal.

But now they have an engine, a weath of 3d material and plenty of code -all ready to go, they can certainly invest more time & resources in to things like Submarine AI (look at the interior work they've done already)

Gezoes · 08-23-09, 08:34 AM

Maybe this'll work. When you receive a convoy contact, there's a X percent chance another U-boat (or 2, lets not overdo it) will join the attack. They must be fully functioning subs ofcourse.

Same for when you report a convoy contact. It already works that way with planes, more or less, so maybe it can be done this way with subs as well...

John Channing · 08-23-09, 09:01 AM

Quote:

If they dont get it right this time, Im totally done with Ubisoft´s products.

I have heard this so many times about so many Ubisoft games I am frankly surprised they don't have to give the things away at flea markets!

"Sales for the second quarter of 2009-10 are expected to come in at around €80 million..."

JCC

difool2 · 08-23-09, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gezoes

Maybe this'll work. When you receive a convoy contact, there's a X percent chance another U-boat (or 2, lets not overdo it) will join the attack. They must be fully functioning subs ofcourse.

Same for when you report a convoy contact. It already works that way with planes, more or less, so maybe it can be done this way with subs as well...

Heck, in SH3 sometimes a friendly U-boat will report convoys on the map (circular not square contacts)-they just won't attack (not sure if they get sunk by the escorts or such).

JU_88 · 08-23-09, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by difool2

Heck, in SH3 sometimes a friendly U-boat will report convoys on the map (circular not square contacts)-they just won't attack (not sure if they get sunk by the escorts or such).

They will try to attack with the deck gun - and promptly get sunk or as a result.

Navarre · 08-23-09, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

I have heard this so many times about so many Ubisoft games I am frankly surprised they don't have to give the things away at flea markets!

We here in Germany have traditionally a higher opinion than the rest of the world concerning product quality. Even PC games must achieved here a very high quality level, documented by the 4-6 gaming print-magazines we have to avoid the loss of sales for the publisher.

SteamWake · 08-23-09, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navarre

We here in Germany have traditionally a higher opinion than the rest of the world concerning product quality. Even PC games must achieved here a very high quality level, documented by the 4-6 gaming print-magazines we have to avoid the loss of sales for the publisher.

Uhhh the development team is in Romainia. Not sure how this is relevant.

Anyhow I'm pretty sure they have heard the message about wolfpacks by now.

tater · 08-23-09, 11:03 AM

Wolfpacks are pretty critical to the ATO, and are even important for later war in the PTO. The ATO without wolfpacks would be like a subsim where the ships don't properly zig-zag in war zones... oh, wait.

Gezoes · 08-23-09, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by difool2

Heck, in SH3 sometimes a friendly U-boat will report convoys on the map (circular not square contacts)-they just won't attack (not sure if they get sunk by the escorts or such).

Yep, I believe GWX was responsible for that? Although they cannot dive and attack only with the deck gun, it's great

Sometimes they succeed and when the player meets up with the convoy, some ships may be burning.

I want them fully functional this time around with a small brain. And I want them to respond. Can't be that hard really. I also hope Ubi got the message, although a confirmation would be very nice...

the fact that there has been none on this issue has me a little bit worried

But it's early day still

hachiman · 08-23-09, 03:23 PM

I personally enjoyed SH3 out of the box. However i was very very annoyed AI wolfpacks weren't included. If you were in a Type VII from 1940-43 the wolfpack was whole basis of the Kreigsmarines strategy. To leave it out was such a sore one!!! However we were advised due to the problems of making AI routines etc and within the timescale it was not possible.

However this will be 5 years down the line and technologies have changed and i hope it makes it this time as to leave it out would be a travesty. They can ramp up the graphics all they want but a U-Boat sim without U-Boats in the same grid zone again would not impress me. However i'll still buy it on day one.

08-22-09, 06:32 PM	#1
hachiman Planesman Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Edinburgh Jockland Posts: 199 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	AI Wolfpacks? Hi Any chance we might get AI wolfpacks in the single player campaign? Thanx __________________ Whats not to love about Submarines? Long'Hard and full of Seamen!!

08-22-09, 11:12 PM	#2
gdogghenrikson Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 978 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Im not getting my hopes up __________________ And when you loose control, you'll reap the harvest you have sown.

08-23-09, 04:16 AM	#3
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	IMHO It would be travasty if they neglected this for the third time in a row. Everyone keeps saying 'Wolfpacks' but what we need is an AI routine for NPC submarines. Once they have been granted 'a brain' (so they know what the hell they are doing in the SH5 would) - NPC Uboats or Enermy subs can simply be dumped in to the campaign like any other unit. How hard can it be to Code some decent AI for submarines? (along with Torpedo controller) Not too hard - but I appreciate they would require slighly more complex routines than say - Escorts. Subs however need to be told, when to dive, when to surface, when to try and attack & when to do a runner etc. In the past modders have applied merchant? AI routines to NPC subs, so they can at least follow way points, shoot at stuff with their guns and zig-zag. Its Better than nothing but its far from ideal. Several talented modders tried to make a frankenstien AI Torpedo controller and some made actual progress before hitting a brick wall. In SH3 when asked about Ai subs & wolfpacks, the devs said 'No but maybe in the next version' ..then they said the same in SH4... So fingers crossed this time. Last edited by JU_88; 08-23-09 at 04:29 AM.

08-23-09, 05:25 AM	#4
Annatar Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Merry Old England Posts: 121 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Wolfpacks are my personal dealbreaker this time. Graphics aren't terribly important to me, first person perspective isn't particularly important to me. These things are nice, don't get me wrong, but it'll feel like we're just treading water if after all this time we still can't get some AI boats. __________________

08-23-09, 08:34 AM	#7
Gezoes XO Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 435 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Maybe this'll work. When you receive a convoy contact, there's a X percent chance another U-boat (or 2, lets not overdo it) will join the attack. They must be fully functioning subs ofcourse. Same for when you report a convoy contact. It already works that way with planes, more or less, so maybe it can be done this way with subs as well... __________________ If I wasn't a little mad, I'd go mad.

08-23-09, 11:03 AM	#13
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Wolfpacks are pretty critical to the ATO, and are even important for later war in the PTO. The ATO without wolfpacks would be like a subsim where the ships don't properly zig-zag in war zones... oh, wait.

08-23-09, 03:23 PM	#15
hachiman Planesman Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Edinburgh Jockland Posts: 199 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	I personally enjoyed SH3 out of the box. However i was very very annoyed AI wolfpacks weren't included. If you were in a Type VII from 1940-43 the wolfpack was whole basis of the Kreigsmarines strategy. To leave it out was such a sore one!!! However we were advised due to the problems of making AI routines etc and within the timescale it was not possible. However this will be 5 years down the line and technologies have changed and i hope it makes it this time as to leave it out would be a travesty. They can ramp up the graphics all they want but a U-Boat sim without U-Boats in the same grid zone again would not impress me. However i'll still buy it on day one. __________________ Whats not to love about Submarines? Long'Hard and full of Seamen!!