WABO Attack Prior to Provocation.

Brag · 09-29-08, 03:18 PM

GWX2.1
1940

You get to your convoy intercept point, dive to PD, go to silent running. You hear the convoy approaching. Your crew is a battle stations, your sound man is tracking the lead escort. Everything is peachy.

The escort gets close and starts pinging. Next thing, wasserbomben. but they miss and you manage to lose the bugger.

This happened to me on three consecutive patrols. My old, true and tried method of penetrating a convoy wasn't working. The lead destroyer acted as if it knew beforehand where I was.

It took some thinking to figure this out. If we can hear a ship 20 kms. away, an escort would be able to hear us for a considerable distance.

So I went to silent running as we dove.

Since then, been able to penetrate convoys without being detected.

Hope you will find this useful.

meduza · 09-29-08, 03:28 PM

I think that the DD's hydrophones range is about 6-7 km. When I enter that zone, never go above 1kt.

Sailor Steve · 09-29-08, 03:29 PM

I don't know if it is graduated, like it is in real life. You should be safe at 2/3 speed (Langsemere Fahrt Voraus), because unless they are actively listening for you you're still harder to detect than at higher speeds. I suspect from what people have said that it's either silent or full, with no in-between. But, as I said, I don't know.

Would be nice, though.

nirwana · 09-29-08, 03:38 PM

I am surprised that u could previously close in submerged without silent running when the convoy is already that close to ure position that ure hydroguy is able to track them. It worked only for me with taskforces where BBs/Carriers and their escorts racing >=20 knts. Then they werent able to track me running full speed ahead with 7-8kts submerged.

geosub1978 · 09-29-08, 06:13 PM

Well, in silent running or not the point is that one:

There should be no passive detection from DDs respect for speeds equal or less than 3kts nomatter the distance.

Actually when the DDs WANTED to search for a submarine or descurage it from approaching, they did it in ACTIVE SONAR mode (Port guards or, HMS BARHAM case. The sonarman of HMS JERVIS had picked the echo of U 331 but it was rejected because the echo was too strong!Actually U 331 was within 500yds.).

If the DDs didn't want to alert the submarines they stayed in PASSIVE mode (Convoy escorts). In that case hardly ever they picked anything.

That's why I insist that there should be no passive detection from DDs side up to 3kts and even for greater speeds this should be also limited. Afterall, in all the books I have read, there is NO mention about a passive detection through out the war, if there were there should had been very few.\

The sound of an electricaly driven submarine at 3-3,5kts is almost nothing for a passive sonar.

Erich dem Roten · 09-29-08, 06:19 PM

I have been picked up by escorts rigged for silent, all stop, 120m, bow toward the oncoming convoy to lessen my aspect. I've also cruised right into convoys at Ahead Slow without being detected, so I'm at a bit of a loss.

onelifecrisis · 09-29-08, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I don't know if it is graduated, like it is in real life. You should be safe at 2/3 speed (Langsemere Fahrt Voraus), because unless they are actively listening for you you're still harder to detect than at higher speeds. I suspect from what people have said that it's either silent or full, with no in-between. But, as I said, I don't know.

Would be nice, though.

It's graduated.

There is an "in-between".

It's also affected by the weather, as (I think) Brag was saying.
Jim, back me up this time!

Sailor Steve · 09-29-08, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

It's graduated.

There is an "in-between".

It's also affected by the weather, as (I think) Brag was saying.
Jim, back me up this time!

Hey! You DA MAN again.

I only hope you're not toying with me this time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich dem Roten

I have been picked up by escorts rigged for silent, all stop, 120m, bow toward the oncoming convoy to lessen my aspect. I've also cruised right into convoys at Ahead Slow without being detected, so I'm at a bit of a loss.

Sounds like reality to me. You know, variety is the spice of life, and all that...

That's one of my fondest memories of AOD - having a DD roll right up to your position, have you in the palm of his hand...and then keep right on rolling because he didn't realize you were there. Of course the next one might be the proverbial Dead-Eye Dick, and not only know your exact location but your depth down to the precise millimeter.

Murr44 · 09-30-08, 05:01 AM

I posted a similar experience recently. I got so focused on an Empire-Type freighter that I didn't notice a Flower Class corvette coming up on me until we literally bumped hulls. I thought "That's it; we're screwed. Guess this career is done."

She passed right by me though & didn't drop any charges. It turned out that because of the rough sea state, our depth (13-14m) and our speed (slow) that she missed us. I missed out on the freighter but at least we didn't die that day...

09-29-08, 03:18 PM	#1
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	WABO Attack Prior to Provocation. GWX2.1 1940 You get to your convoy intercept point, dive to PD, go to silent running. You hear the convoy approaching. Your crew is a battle stations, your sound man is tracking the lead escort. Everything is peachy. The escort gets close and starts pinging. Next thing, wasserbomben. but they miss and you manage to lose the bugger. This happened to me on three consecutive patrols. My old, true and tried method of penetrating a convoy wasn't working. The lead destroyer acted as if it knew beforehand where I was. It took some thinking to figure this out. If we can hear a ship 20 kms. away, an escort would be able to hear us for a considerable distance. So I went to silent running as we dove. Since then, been able to penetrate convoys without being detected. Hope you will find this useful. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

09-29-08, 03:28 PM	#2
meduza Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: on patrol Posts: 1,035 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	I think that the DD's hydrophones range is about 6-7 km. When I enter that zone, never go above 1kt. __________________

09-29-08, 03:29 PM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I don't know if it is graduated, like it is in real life. You should be safe at 2/3 speed (Langsemere Fahrt Voraus), because unless they are actively listening for you you're still harder to detect than at higher speeds. I suspect from what people have said that it's either silent or full, with no in-between. But, as I said, I don't know. Would be nice, though. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

09-29-08, 06:13 PM	#5
geosub1978 Samurai Navy Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Salamis Base Posts: 567 Downloads: 229 Uploads: 0	Well, in silent running or not the point is that one: There should be no passive detection from DDs respect for speeds equal or less than 3kts nomatter the distance. Actually when the DDs WANTED to search for a submarine or descurage it from approaching, they did it in ACTIVE SONAR mode (Port guards or, HMS BARHAM case. The sonarman of HMS JERVIS had picked the echo of U 331 but it was rejected because the echo was too strong!Actually U 331 was within 500yds.). If the DDs didn't want to alert the submarines they stayed in PASSIVE mode (Convoy escorts). In that case hardly ever they picked anything. That's why I insist that there should be no passive detection from DDs side up to 3kts and even for greater speeds this should be also limited. Afterall, in all the books I have read, there is NO mention about a passive detection through out the war, if there were there should had been very few.\ The sound of an electricaly driven submarine at 3-3,5kts is almost nothing for a passive sonar. __________________ Last edited by geosub1978; 09-29-08 at 06:25 PM.

09-29-08, 06:19 PM	#6
Erich dem Roten Electrician's Mate Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 134 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	I have been picked up by escorts rigged for silent, all stop, 120m, bow toward the oncoming convoy to lessen my aspect. I've also cruised right into convoys at Ahead Slow without being detected, so I'm at a bit of a loss. __________________

09-29-08, 03:38 PM	#4
nirwana Sonar Guy Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 380 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	I am surprised that u could previously close in submerged without silent running when the convoy is already that close to ure position that ure hydroguy is able to track them. It worked only for me with taskforces where BBs/Carriers and their escorts racing >=20 knts. Then they werent able to track me running full speed ahead with 7-8kts submerged.

09-30-08, 05:01 AM	#9
Murr44 Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 913 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	I posted a similar experience recently. I got so focused on an Empire-Type freighter that I didn't notice a Flower Class corvette coming up on me until we literally bumped hulls. I thought "That's it; we're screwed. Guess this career is done." She passed right by me though & didn't drop any charges. It turned out that because of the rough sea state, our depth (13-14m) and our speed (slow) that she missed us. I missed out on the freighter but at least we didn't die that day...