Why NATO can't deliver peace in Afghanistan

[Skybird]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...556304,00.html

A long but good read, I think.

Forty nations are embroiled in an unwinnable war in Afghanistan. Anyone who travels through the country with Western troops soon realizes that NATO forces would have to be increased tenfold for peace to be even a remote possibility. ...
Last year, 1,469 bombs exploded along Afghan roads, a number almost five times as high as in 2004. There were 8,950 armed attacks on troops and civilian support personnel, 10 times more than only three years earlier. One hundred and thirty suicide bombers blew themselves up in 2007. There were three suicide bombings in 2004.

.

Related: "What's important is to kill the Germans":
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...554545,00.html

Haqqani: You just don't understand: There is no need for special orders anymore. The mujahedeen are just doing what they are responsible for doing. To kill and attack Germans is the goal and that is clear to everyone. The entire chain and network is responsible. ... Yes, we lost some key commanders such as Mullah Dadullah, Osmani or Mansoor Dadullah, but just look at the history of the Taliban between 1995 and 1996. Back then we also lost two important main commanders -- Mullah Mohammad and Mullah Borjan -- but we still took control of Kabul and almost all of Afghanistan. ... The holy Koran forbids committing suicide, but it does not forbid the fedayeen. There is a huge difference. Suicide is when a person kills himself without any ultimate goal, but fedayeen strive for the ultimate goal, Islam. ...

[bradclark1]

One or the other would be lost. I guess the lost has been chosen.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

One or the other would be lost. I guess the lost has been chosen.

Pardon? I don't get what you mean.

[jpm1]

i think the talibans can't rule a country as from what i've seen they have intolerable doctrines in particular concerning women so we should fight them . the problem is Bin Laden does the guy simply exists

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Pardon? I don't get what you mean.

I've said numerous times that we are going to have to pick Afghanistan or Iraq to concentrate on. We can't do both so therefore we will lose one.

[Skybird]

And I was wondering about KIAs, and in what way what was to be expressed for what reason, and how to make sense of it.

[jpm1]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

I've said numerous times that we are going to have to pick Afghanistan or Iraq to concentrate on. We can't do both so therefore we will lose one.

withdrawal in Afghanistan is impossible for the US i mean what the opinion the US opinion would say if Bush (or the government) stopped searching the most probable Bin Laden's hideout a withdrawal in Iraq maybe could be possible because of the heavy losses there .??

Originally Posted by Skybird

And I was wondering about KIAs, and in what way what was to be expressed for what reason, and how to make sense of it.

as i've said before i think we can't let the country to talibans they are just unsensed fanatics even if the situation concerning Bin Laden is at least opaque i think we must stay and help the country to go foward a real democracy (personal opinion) but in the same time keeping in mind that a country history can be made by its inhabitants only so helping but never sending massive force

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by jpm1

as i've said before i think we can't let the country to talibans they are just unsensed fanatics even if the situation concerning Bin Laden is at least opaque i think we must stay and help the country to go foward a real democracy (personal opinion) but in the same time keeping in mind that a country history can be made by its inhabitants only so helping but never sending massive force

What you want to acchieve is one thing. What you actually can acchieve - is something different.

If I may refer you to some older essay of mine, it is almost two years old, so see it in that timeframe.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=101846

You said we should wage war since the Taleban behave badly over there (summing it up a bit).Let me remind of the quote by Helmut Schmidt with which the essay closes:

“The decisive factor is not the moral argument, but the
moral fundament of one's own policy. That's what counts,

not the externally presented argument.” (Helmut Schmidt)

[Skybird]

I forgot that I have changed my provider meanwhile, and the old website is no more active. Just in case you are interested, get it here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/118908081/Afghanistan.pdf.html

[jpm1]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I forgot that I have changed my provider meanwhile, and the old website is no more active. Just in case you are interested, get it here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/11890808...istan.pdf.html

please send me the file via email can't download jmar2252atyahoo.fr

[Skybird]

done

[jpm1]

Thanks i understand better the situation there's a pipeline project and Afghanistan is among the very rare passages possible . the other big problem is the drugs we need to eradicate the drug problem to start from sane basis but it would inevitably lead to a confrontation with the warlords armies their power being based on the heroin . but as you say it at the end the only solution to bring the country to democracy s to build hospitals to form teachers and for that we have to be there complex problem ..

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by jpm1

but as you say it at the end the only solution to bring the country to democracy s to build hospitals to form teachers and for that we have to be there complex problem ..

Have I?

I remember clearly that at the end I give a strong recommendation to pull our troops out there. what you mean was an option for the beginning, but Germany failed to militarily protect this strategy, and germ,any alos broke a lot of promises regarding support (all Western antions did not fulfill their promsies in full), while America has failed to even realise this strategy, and instead first forgot Afghanistan (in favour of Iraq), then approached it on military terms exclusivly. the americans meanwhile have learned (last but not least by Patreus' dogmatic changes in Iraq, that civil reconstrution would have been very important to achieve their goals, but their insight came too late. Nevertheless - the Germans haven't learned anything at all, and talk of a condition that even does not exist any longer, while the brutal and quckly detoriating reality gets actively rejected by german politicians. So, I criticise america here, but I criticise germany as well, and at least as strong as america.

You either do it in full, or you don't do it at all. Both america and Germany have failed in different fields, and on monumental scale, and both failed for different reasons, but both have failed. I can't see that we have anything to win over there anymore.

Get our troops out of afghanistan. I entitled the essay "Trapped in the Afghan maze", and after two years it still is the best description of the status quo I can think of. Get our troops out of this mess. This war could run for decades - and what for? WHAT FOR...?

[Brag]

Excellent article!


Afghanistan as a country on the map is strictly a fantasy. The best description is the Tribal Areas in Pakistan, which really belong to the area to the north. It's a jumble of groupings ruled by warlords and formerly vassals who gave lip service to a king.

These tribes simply don't put up with foreigners interfering with their affairs. I've been to the tribal areas along the Pakistani border, had tea in caves and even did some trout fishing. Pakistan had its agents in the area and they were very careful to do nothing that would upset the locals. This system has been in place for thousands of years. The only change has been the weapons in the hands of the locals.

The big mistake commited is that the Americans did not withdraw right away after trashing the Taliban. Now, militarily, it has become a lose-lose proposition. The only possible result of foreign armed intervention is further destabilisation of the region.

[jpm1]

the problem is heroin and the money of heroin which allows local warlords to purchase weapons maybe the solution can come from setting ones against each others and when they are enought weakened to put the final point with a coalition army