AA flak?

totodog · 05-12-08, 05:11 PM

Do any AA guns use the AA shells?

SeaWolf U-57 · 05-12-08, 05:43 PM

yes the 3.7cm FK M 42 single and the twin do for sure

totodog · 05-12-08, 05:44 PM

I've tried those guns, but I can't seem to get the flak.

Brag · 05-12-08, 08:49 PM

Welcome aboard, Totodog!
The AA guns, though sometimes capable of warding off aircraft, in practice are pretty useless. They are the last resort when you can't dive.

Mush Martin · 05-12-08, 08:55 PM

Well if someone could tell me how to dive this thing then

Brag · 05-12-08, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

Well if someone could tell me how to dive this thing then

Mush, something tells me you've been running around in circles.

bookworm_020 · 05-13-08, 01:54 AM

Ah! Stock SH3!

When flak could kill any bomber that came in range! The sight of multiple burning aircarft in a death dive was one of the joys of patrols (as well a quick tour through the English Channel with deck guns blazing!

) Long since gone due to the joys of GWX! But wouldn't give it up for all the tea in China, Gold in Fort Knox and holiday on a Pacific Island!

Catfish · 05-13-08, 03:55 AM

Hello,
there is a true story about a type IX boat from Lt. Kaminski, which was unable to dive in the Caribbean. It fought off four different planes, and an airship for hours, until it was finally sunk by a destroyer that had been radioed in for help. Who still has the SHII manual can read part of the story there.

Against common belief here in the forum a boat with anything more than a single MG in early war was well able to defend itself against aircraft - assumed its engines and rudder were in working order. The AA traps or "Flak-Falle" boats were only useless because they were built at a time where England was able to mass up lots of planes which would overwhelm every boat sooner or later by sheer mass attacks from different directions. If you play the training mission in GWX2.1 at full realism you will know what i mean

.

The dilemma for a U-boat was always to either stay on the surface and fight it out, but then also be aware of the possibility of incoming reenforcements, called for by a circling aircraft, or dive as fast as possible.
It was always the problem if the boat could submerge and change course and depth fast enough when a plane was sighted. The white wash in the sea where the boat dived could be seen for some minutes - if not in SHIII though.

A typical attack procedure happened that way: A plane sights a U-boat, before the boat spots the plane. If the plane can make use of low clouds it will use it for an attack. If not it will probably use the sun in its back to decrease the distance until being seen, thus shortening the time the boat has left to dive. The first bomb run would be always made, however if the boat would stay at the surface and man its AA guns ("Flak" in german for "Flug-Abwehr-Kanone") the plane would not go in for a second attack, or even break a second or further attack if the boat was able to show its tail to the attacker, enabling the AA to shoot at the plane.

A plane usually only attacked when the boat was observed preparing to dive. If the boat obviously intended to stay surfaced and fight it out the plane would circle the boat out of AA range until it was observed preparing to dive, in which case the plane would again attack immediately. In fact there were a lot of fake dives, so the boat was doing as if preparing to dive, but suddenly blew ballast and immediately manned the AA again. A plane would then break its attack and circle again out of AA range. There area lot of stories telling the tactics through the war.

Problem for a boat remaining surfaced was that the plane would call for reenforcements consisting either of planes or escort ships. All they could hope for was the plane's fuel would force the plane to leave before renforcements showed up.

Greetings,
Catfish

totodog · 05-13-08, 06:39 AM

Thank you all for your responses, but I still want to know which U-Boat and which guns use the AA shells.

danlisa · 05-13-08, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totodog

Thank you all for your responses, but I still want to know which U-Boat and which guns use the AA shells.

Are you still using stock Sh3? Although, it shouldn't matter. If it's GWX you're using the choice is limited but the round you want should be manually selectable when manning the flak station.

The 3.7cm C30, M42 & M42 Zwilling should all use the ack ack round. I think the only boats that carry these are the Type 9's however, you may be able to carry the 3.7cm C30 or M42 on a Type 7 with the correct conning tower configuration. I'm only really sure about the Type 9's.

SeaWolf U-57 · 05-13-08, 07:11 AM

Ah yes now is see if you are using GWX the flank shells do not show when you man the gun station only the AP shells (when using the M42) if you go into the torps screen and click the shell's in the right corner it will take you to the shells screen click each shell load and see if some are AAshells if they are this meens that they are working on the guns but dont show at the station if you dont click the AP shell they should use the AA as default....hey look at that the deck gun is only showing AP shells but i am shooting HE shells

danlisa · 05-13-08, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix1957

Ah yes now is see if you are using GWX the flank shells do not show when you man the gun station only the AP shells....

Not quite right.

If the gun had ack ack historically, it has it in GWX. In other terms, the icon will be displayed if the flak gun is supposed to carry ack ack.

However, be warned, if anyone is using a menu.ini file that is not based on GWX 2.1 they will not be displayed correctly.

SeaWolf U-57 · 05-13-08, 08:18 AM

If the gun had ack ack historically, it has it in GWX. In other terms, the icon will be displayed if the flak gun is supposed to carry ack ack.

However, be warned, if anyone is using a menu.ini file that is not based on GWX 2.1 they will not be displayed correctly.

MMMmmm EH

ok then so what you are saying is that with GWX2.1 you may or may not have AA shells working with your guns and if you have they wont show anyway because they should not.
so how come when i just looked at my deck gun it shows the HE shells faded and the shell load shows 50 which is the AP load but the AP shell is not showing or did the VIIC not carry AP and HE shells or they did but GWX dont think they should have or is my Menu.ini file currupted by some other mod or am i a NUB again?????

danlisa · 05-13-08, 08:32 AM

OK, lets see.....

FLAK Guns:

Flak Guns capable of firing AA & HE rounds will display the correct loadout.
Flak Guns not capable of AA (ack ack) will only display the HE loadout.

Deck Guns:

The deck gun will only EVER display HE rounds and the correct round count for that round.

Please note : All rounds displayed are clickable.

I can assure you that if you are seeing something different than this, somewhere along the line the 1024_768menu.ini has been changed from it's original state in GWX 2.1. I hate that file but I made sure it was correct before GWX 2.1's release.

List your activated mods if you like.

SeaWolf U-57 · 05-13-08, 09:22 AM

ok mods used..

View from deck gun...

even when using the game from freash start and no mods this is all i have ever seen....and maybe i am not the only one

05-12-08, 05:11 PM	#1
totodog A-ganger Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 77 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	AA flak? Do any AA guns use the AA shells?

05-12-08, 05:43 PM	#2
SeaWolf U-57 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,231 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	AA Flank yes the 3.7cm FK M 42 single and the twin do for sure

05-12-08, 08:49 PM	#4
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard, Totodog! The AA guns, though sometimes capable of warding off aircraft, in practice are pretty useless. They are the last resort when you can't dive. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

05-12-08, 08:55 PM	#5
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Well if someone could tell me how to dive this thing then __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

05-13-08, 01:54 AM	#7
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Ah! Stock SH3! When flak could kill any bomber that came in range! The sight of multiple burning aircarft in a death dive was one of the joys of patrols (as well a quick tour through the English Channel with deck guns blazing!) Long since gone due to the joys of GWX! But wouldn't give it up for all the tea in China, Gold in Fort Knox and holiday on a Pacific Island! __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

05-12-08, 05:44 PM	#3
totodog A-ganger Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 77 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I've tried those guns, but I can't seem to get the flak.

05-13-08, 03:55 AM	#8
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,766 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, there is a true story about a type IX boat from Lt. Kaminski, which was unable to dive in the Caribbean. It fought off four different planes, and an airship for hours, until it was finally sunk by a destroyer that had been radioed in for help. Who still has the SHII manual can read part of the story there. Against common belief here in the forum a boat with anything more than a single MG in early war was well able to defend itself against aircraft - assumed its engines and rudder were in working order. The AA traps or "Flak-Falle" boats were only useless because they were built at a time where England was able to mass up lots of planes which would overwhelm every boat sooner or later by sheer mass attacks from different directions. If you play the training mission in GWX2.1 at full realism you will know what i mean . The dilemma for a U-boat was always to either stay on the surface and fight it out, but then also be aware of the possibility of incoming reenforcements, called for by a circling aircraft, or dive as fast as possible. It was always the problem if the boat could submerge and change course and depth fast enough when a plane was sighted. The white wash in the sea where the boat dived could be seen for some minutes - if not in SHIII though. A typical attack procedure happened that way: A plane sights a U-boat, before the boat spots the plane. If the plane can make use of low clouds it will use it for an attack. If not it will probably use the sun in its back to decrease the distance until being seen, thus shortening the time the boat has left to dive. The first bomb run would be always made, however if the boat would stay at the surface and man its AA guns ("Flak" in german for "Flug-Abwehr-Kanone") the plane would not go in for a second attack, or even break a second or further attack if the boat was able to show its tail to the attacker, enabling the AA to shoot at the plane. A plane usually only attacked when the boat was observed preparing to dive. If the boat obviously intended to stay surfaced and fight it out the plane would circle the boat out of AA range until it was observed preparing to dive, in which case the plane would again attack immediately. In fact there were a lot of fake dives, so the boat was doing as if preparing to dive, but suddenly blew ballast and immediately manned the AA again. A plane would then break its attack and circle again out of AA range. There area lot of stories telling the tactics through the war. Problem for a boat remaining surfaced was that the plane would call for reenforcements consisting either of planes or escort ships. All they could hope for was the plane's fuel would force the plane to leave before renforcements showed up. Greetings, Catfish

05-13-08, 06:39 AM	#9
totodog A-ganger Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 77 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Thank you all for your responses, but I still want to know which U-Boat and which guns use the AA shells.

05-13-08, 07:11 AM	#11
SeaWolf U-57 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,231 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	Ah yes now is see if you are using GWX the flank shells do not show when you man the gun station only the AP shells (when using the M42) if you go into the torps screen and click the shell's in the right corner it will take you to the shells screen click each shell load and see if some are AAshells if they are this meens that they are working on the guns but dont show at the station if you dont click the AP shell they should use the AA as default....hey look at that the deck gun is only showing AP shells but i am shooting HE shells

05-13-08, 08:18 AM	#13
SeaWolf U-57 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,231 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	If the gun had ack ack historically, it has it in GWX. In other terms, the icon will be displayed if the flak gun is supposed to carry ack ack. However, be warned, if anyone is using a menu.ini file that is not based on GWX 2.1 they will not be displayed correctly. MMMmmm EH ok then so what you are saying is that with GWX2.1 you may or may not have AA shells working with your guns and if you have they wont show anyway because they should not. so how come when i just looked at my deck gun it shows the HE shells faded and the shell load shows 50 which is the AP load but the AP shell is not showing or did the VIIC not carry AP and HE shells or they did but GWX dont think they should have or is my Menu.ini file currupted by some other mod or am i a NUB again?????

05-13-08, 08:32 AM	#14
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	OK, lets see..... FLAK Guns: Flak Guns capable of firing AA & HE rounds will display the correct loadout. Flak Guns not capable of AA (ack ack) will only display the HE loadout. Deck Guns: The deck gun will only EVER display HE rounds and the correct round count for that round. Please note : All rounds displayed are clickable. I can assure you that if you are seeing something different than this, somewhere along the line the 1024_768menu.ini has been changed from it's original state in GWX 2.1. I hate that file but I made sure it was correct before GWX 2.1's release. List your activated mods if you like. __________________

05-13-08, 09:22 AM	#15
SeaWolf U-57 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,231 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	ok mods used.. View from deck gun... even when using the game from freash start and no mods this is all i have ever seen....and maybe i am not the only one