screwed by auto targeting

claybirdd · 02-04-08, 03:48 PM

Granted i've never tried Manual targeting as it seems way to complicated (too much going on to quick) and damnit im captain i should just have to say fire tube 1. That beieng said I sailed up to Guam in Nov. 43 and decided to see what was going on in one of the ports. cant remember the name. I run across a minesweeper doing a patroll and medium European Composite just siting there all still about 100 yds AWAY FROM THE PIER. got within 1300 yds and fired 3 fish at a stationary target with 0 angle on bow. All 3 missed wide right.

so either my WO is completly burned out and needs r&r or Auto targeting is screwed and im gonna have to learn Manual which seems impossible

. BTW running ROW+T.M.+RSRD
any advice or ideas would be very welcome and thanks in advance.

Linavitch · 02-04-08, 04:02 PM

Manual targetting isn't THAT hard. And the reward for a sinking sure outweighs the difficulty. As long as you leave map contacts on you can check you solution on the attack map (F6 in TM)

Also check out the SCAF mod which replaces the mast with the funnel as the reference point for the stadimeter.

tedhealy · 02-04-08, 04:23 PM

I agree, give manual targeting a try. It's actually pretty easy once you get over the initial learning curve.

1. ID ship.
2. Get range, guesstimate AOB, guesstimate speed.
3. Set tdc to follow target.
4. On the bottom dial, watch the generated bearing to target by mousing over the top part of the wheel. Compare that to the actual bearing to target over time (how long? Depends on how much time you have. Sometimes I'll check the two bearings every few minutes, sometimes I'll watch them continuously, and sometimes I'll watch the tdc generated bearing with the scope down and have the sonar man call out the bearings to see if they match).
5A. If the actual bearing is out in front of the tdc generated bearing, either you have underestimated speed, or are off on AOB - increase tdc speed and/or change AOB.
5B. If the actual bearing is lagging behind the tdc generated bearing, either you have overestimated speed, or are off on AOB - decrease tdc speed and/or change AOB.
6. Make any adjustments to range/AOB/speed and repeat 4 and 5 as needed until actual bearing and tdc bearing hold the same for at least the estimated time of the torpedo run. If they hold the same, you can't miss barring any target course changes or bad torpedoes.

Linavitch · 02-04-08, 04:29 PM

One thing to add to Ted's post: Using TM you can auto ID the target. This is often the hardest step IMO, espicially at night.

One thing to add to my post: Once you have manual down you'll never go back!

Snuffy · 02-04-08, 04:40 PM

With manual targeting you don't necessarily have to ID the ship. And unless he's taken it out, Ducimus has an auto ID function in his TM.

claybirdd · 02-04-08, 04:41 PM

thanks forthe replies. just got through watching Neil's video explaining TDC while attacking a yamato. Seems really straight forward and enticing. However, in his video he is just guessing the speed. Granted i'vebeen playin about a year and know the usual speed of ships, but is their a proper way to eastimate speed? Or like Neil do you just pull it out your butt? Also in T.M. is ship ID automatic or is their a hotkey?

Snuffy · 02-04-08, 04:43 PM

Icon that I know of ... if there's a hotkey I haven't been using it.

tedhealy · 02-04-08, 05:09 PM

My first guess at speed is usually half of the target's top speed with some observation on the target's bow spray thrown in. The 2 other methods I use are the 3 minute rule (distance target has moved over 3 minutes, then knock off the last two zeros to get speed - 900 yards = 9 knots) and just plain old plotting distance and using the nomograph.

Linavitch · 02-04-08, 05:13 PM

If you've got SJ radar installed it's a piece of cake to determine speed with the 3 minute rule.

Also the TDC will also determine speed for you as long as you take two readings with the stadimeter. Just click the clock on the speed dial and your crew will give you course and speed.

claybirdd · 02-04-08, 05:15 PM

nomograph

. I've read how to use it but i think ill try the three minuite rule.

Linavitch · 02-04-08, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claybirdd

nomograph

. I've read how to use it but i think ill try the three minuite rule.

Are you imperial or metric?

If Imperial 3 min at 500 yds = 5 knots
If metric 3min 15 sec at 500m = 5 knots

So now you've got all three pieces of info it's easy to see how the Nomograph works.

Use the ruler to draw a line connecting 3 min, 500 yards and 5 knots. See how they all line up on the diagonal?

Now if you only know two pieces of the info you just connect them two, but expand your line and the nomograph will calculate the third for you. Simple.

claybirdd · 02-04-08, 05:34 PM

I love this forum. your responses are Very helpfull and i think im abou to restart my career about say early '43 (so i can get SJ radar) and fire up the TDC.

the WO needs some R&R after his horrible aim on a stationary target. BTW im Imperial.

Linavitch · 02-04-08, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claybirdd

I love this forum.

Me too buddy. Everything I printed above I learnt off here earlier.

AFAIK SJ radar is available fairly early on in TM.

I seriously recommend the SCAF mod I mentioned earlier. It's a LOT easier to align the top of the funnel on the stadiemeter than the mast. The recognition manual even has a nice red mark for you

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126016

Good hunting

Snuffy · 02-04-08, 06:26 PM

Nah, go for broke and take a Sugar out ...

Don't get no better than that!

Ridgeback · 02-05-08, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linavitch

If you've got SJ radar installed it's a piece of cake to determine speed with the 3 minute rule.

Linavitch,

The SJ radar and my inability to get accurate ranges from it is one of my pet hates.

Are you using the A-scope to plot ranges and then use the 3 minute rule? If so, how do you do it with any accuracy?

I'll name my third-born after you if you have any advice that might make the SJ more useful for an actual attack

.

02-04-08, 03:48 PM	#1
claybirdd Frogman Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pulaski Tennessee Posts: 290 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	screwed by auto targeting Granted i've never tried Manual targeting as it seems way to complicated (too much going on to quick) and damnit im captain i should just have to say fire tube 1. That beieng said I sailed up to Guam in Nov. 43 and decided to see what was going on in one of the ports. cant remember the name. I run across a minesweeper doing a patroll and medium European Composite just siting there all still about 100 yds AWAY FROM THE PIER. got within 1300 yds and fired 3 fish at a stationary target with 0 angle on bow. All 3 missed wide right. so either my WO is completly burned out and needs r&r or Auto targeting is screwed and im gonna have to learn Manual which seems impossible. BTW running ROW+T.M.+RSRD any advice or ideas would be very welcome and thanks in advance.

02-04-08, 04:02 PM	#2
Linavitch Officer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hull Posts: 239 Downloads: 170 Uploads: 0	Manual targetting isn't THAT hard. And the reward for a sinking sure outweighs the difficulty. As long as you leave map contacts on you can check you solution on the attack map (F6 in TM) Also check out the SCAF mod which replaces the mast with the funnel as the reference point for the stadimeter. __________________ Like music only more painful http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndID=108090746

02-04-08, 04:29 PM	#4
Linavitch Officer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hull Posts: 239 Downloads: 170 Uploads: 0	One thing to add to Ted's post: Using TM you can auto ID the target. This is often the hardest step IMO, espicially at night. One thing to add to my post: Once you have manual down you'll never go back! __________________ Like music only more painful http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndID=108090746

02-04-08, 04:40 PM	#5
Snuffy XO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 420 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	With manual targeting you don't necessarily have to ID the ship. And unless he's taken it out, Ducimus has an auto ID function in his TM. __________________ ----------------- Snuffy!

02-04-08, 04:41 PM	#6
claybirdd Frogman Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pulaski Tennessee Posts: 290 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	thanks thanks forthe replies. just got through watching Neil's video explaining TDC while attacking a yamato. Seems really straight forward and enticing. However, in his video he is just guessing the speed. Granted i'vebeen playin about a year and know the usual speed of ships, but is their a proper way to eastimate speed? Or like Neil do you just pull it out your butt? Also in T.M. is ship ID automatic or is their a hotkey?

02-04-08, 04:23 PM	#3
tedhealy Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO, USA Posts: 772 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	I agree, give manual targeting a try. It's actually pretty easy once you get over the initial learning curve. 1. ID ship. 2. Get range, guesstimate AOB, guesstimate speed. 3. Set tdc to follow target. 4. On the bottom dial, watch the generated bearing to target by mousing over the top part of the wheel. Compare that to the actual bearing to target over time (how long? Depends on how much time you have. Sometimes I'll check the two bearings every few minutes, sometimes I'll watch them continuously, and sometimes I'll watch the tdc generated bearing with the scope down and have the sonar man call out the bearings to see if they match). 5A. If the actual bearing is out in front of the tdc generated bearing, either you have underestimated speed, or are off on AOB - increase tdc speed and/or change AOB. 5B. If the actual bearing is lagging behind the tdc generated bearing, either you have overestimated speed, or are off on AOB - decrease tdc speed and/or change AOB. 6. Make any adjustments to range/AOB/speed and repeat 4 and 5 as needed until actual bearing and tdc bearing hold the same for at least the estimated time of the torpedo run. If they hold the same, you can't miss barring any target course changes or bad torpedoes.

02-04-08, 04:43 PM	#7
Snuffy XO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 420 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Icon that I know of ... if there's a hotkey I haven't been using it. __________________ ----------------- Snuffy!

02-04-08, 05:09 PM	#8
tedhealy Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO, USA Posts: 772 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	My first guess at speed is usually half of the target's top speed with some observation on the target's bow spray thrown in. The 2 other methods I use are the 3 minute rule (distance target has moved over 3 minutes, then knock off the last two zeros to get speed - 900 yards = 9 knots) and just plain old plotting distance and using the nomograph.

02-04-08, 05:13 PM	#9
Linavitch Officer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hull Posts: 239 Downloads: 170 Uploads: 0	If you've got SJ radar installed it's a piece of cake to determine speed with the 3 minute rule. Also the TDC will also determine speed for you as long as you take two readings with the stadimeter. Just click the clock on the speed dial and your crew will give you course and speed. __________________ Like music only more painful http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndID=108090746

02-04-08, 05:15 PM	#10
claybirdd Frogman Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pulaski Tennessee Posts: 290 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	nomograph. I've read how to use it but i think ill try the three minuite rule.

02-04-08, 05:34 PM	#12
claybirdd Frogman Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pulaski Tennessee Posts: 290 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	I love this forum. your responses are Very helpfull and i think im abou to restart my career about say early '43 (so i can get SJ radar) and fire up the TDC. the WO needs some R&R after his horrible aim on a stationary target. BTW im Imperial.

02-04-08, 06:26 PM	#14
Snuffy XO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 420 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Nah, go for broke and take a Sugar out ... Don't get no better than that! __________________ ----------------- Snuffy!