Avoiding contact - thermal layer

Grayson02sept1980 · 01-30-08, 10:33 AM

Hi!

I read in a thread about the GWX AI that the thermal layer is an issue to avoid the DD DE etc to get contact.

But how can I - in the game - get this?

Back when I pülayed Silent Service 2 there was a simpla thermometer you could see the temperature fall and knew : "AH! bayond the thermal border"... but how is this in SH3 with GWX?

Thanks Folks

(and btw I have been sunk by depthchanrges twice now as I just can't keep my greedy little fingers with me and have to attack even if the water is just 80m deep... my fault... and it started to happen just now that I reached the year '41... guess the sonar of the Escorts gets better.)

Uncle Goose · 01-30-08, 11:19 AM

U-boats didn't have a Thermograph like the US subs.

Pisces · 01-30-08, 12:20 PM

As far as I know only SH Commander allows a (extremely simple) simulation of a thermal layer. It's simply if you are below a certain random depth you won't hear what's on the other side, and they don't hear you. Other than your ears there is no indication of when you crossed it.

HEMISENT · 01-30-08, 12:39 PM

There are 5 different depth levels of Thermal Layers which Commander "might" load. There really is no way to determine if you've been issued one. The "stealth" meter (if you're using it) will gradually change shades from red to green as you go deeper. Let's say you're being hunted by a DD built in 1940(early model sensors). Let's say you're issued a TL which starts at 90m. This means that his sensors will begin to lose you at around 85m-88m the meter will begin to change colors and once you're down to say 100m the DD will lose you(green meter) and you can slowly slink away.

Same scenario but with a DD built in 44 (late model updated sensors). This particular DD may still have you acquired until your boat reaches 100m or 105m. The later war sensors were more powerful/efficient than early war units.

If you're playing at a higher realism setting and not using the stealth meter all you can do is go as deep as possible and listen at the hydrophones keeping very aware of the enemy above. Follow the guides for evading enemies above you and hope for the best. You MUST be at silent running for the thermal layer files to work. They are not a magic bullet but they have saved me on many occassions.

This is only for GWX. They do not work in NYGM

Grayson02sept1980 · 01-31-08, 04:11 PM

Thanks folks!

But is the "Commander" worth it? I mean I play GWX with my first (second overall) campaign so...

I will read about the Commander and see... Thanks for the hints!

Heibges · 01-31-08, 07:36 PM

Knowing about a thermal layer is realy only valuable in the attack, if you are going to try to come in submerged.

If you are being attacked, you are going to dive and stay as deep as possible. Just because there is a thermal layer at 70m, I am still going to dive to 200m. If a thermal layer is there you are lucky, but otherwise it shouldn't really effect your tactics.

Also, the Germans did have some instrument for measuring thermal layers

U.Kdt.Hdb III.57.a Continual observation and measuring of water densities and temperatures are therefore important and indespensible, for establishing the presence of "stratification" when submerging to considerable depths as a means of evading pursuit by position finding.

Sailor Steve · 01-31-08, 07:38 PM

SH3 Commander is worth your virtual soul! It's not a mod, it's a tool, which does many things for your career. Read this post and follow the link for the readme, which expains everything.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...16&postcount=5

Also, for an easy to follow list, I posted this.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...54&postcount=2

harzfeld · 01-31-08, 08:08 PM

Usually in stock, destroyers knew the instant my uboat turned its rudder, no matter how deep my uboat is. I don't believe they could do that in real life. I felt it brings down realistic of the game. I don't know if GWX removed that parameter out that was written by UBI, since I am still waiting for 2.1 to come out to find out.

Brag · 01-31-08, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harzfeld

Usually in stock, destroyers knew the instant my uboat turned its rudder, no matter how deep my uboat is. I don't believe they could do that in real life. I felt it brings down realistic of the game. I don't know if GWX removed that parameter out that was written by UBI, since I am still waiting for 2.1 to come out to find out.

Kaleuns have a tendency to give ASW vessels extraordinary powers when getting zapped. Dive deep, be quiet, you may survive. U-boating is a dangerous business. If the enemy gets you, that's the way it is. Yo're dead.

harzfeld · 02-01-08, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brag

Quote:

Originally Posted by harzfeld

Usually in stock, destroyers knew the instant my uboat turned its rudder, no matter how deep my uboat is. I don't believe they could do that in real life. I felt it brings down realistic of the game. I don't know if GWX removed that parameter out that was written by UBI, since I am still waiting for 2.1 to come out to find out.

Kaleuns have a tendency to give ASW vessels extraordinary powers when getting zapped. Dive deep, be quiet, you may survive. U-boating is a dangerous business. If the enemy gets you, that's the way it is. Yo're dead.

When I am detected, AI destroyers always chased where I go base on my rudder’s bearing before the body of my U-boat follows. I have seen this in external view, when a destroyer approaching overhead, I hit hard to port or starboard, the destroyer changed its rudder bearing to match mine instantly. I doubt in real life for destroyers to be able to hear which way U-boat’s rudder turns to match the course. It’s a misleading notion that goes against the purpose of this simulation.

01-30-08, 10:33 AM	#1
Grayson02sept1980 中国水兵 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Germany-Bayreuth Posts: 276 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Avoiding contact - thermal layer Hi! I read in a thread about the GWX AI that the thermal layer is an issue to avoid the DD DE etc to get contact. But how can I - in the game - get this? Back when I pülayed Silent Service 2 there was a simpla thermometer you could see the temperature fall and knew : "AH! bayond the thermal border"... but how is this in SH3 with GWX? Thanks Folks (and btw I have been sunk by depthchanrges twice now as I just can't keep my greedy little fingers with me and have to attack even if the water is just 80m deep... my fault... and it started to happen just now that I reached the year '41... guess the sonar of the Escorts gets better.)

01-30-08, 12:39 PM	#4
HEMISENT Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 1,052 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	There are 5 different depth levels of Thermal Layers which Commander "might" load. There really is no way to determine if you've been issued one. The "stealth" meter (if you're using it) will gradually change shades from red to green as you go deeper. Let's say you're being hunted by a DD built in 1940(early model sensors). Let's say you're issued a TL which starts at 90m. This means that his sensors will begin to lose you at around 85m-88m the meter will begin to change colors and once you're down to say 100m the DD will lose you(green meter) and you can slowly slink away. Same scenario but with a DD built in 44 (late model updated sensors). This particular DD may still have you acquired until your boat reaches 100m or 105m. The later war sensors were more powerful/efficient than early war units. If you're playing at a higher realism setting and not using the stealth meter all you can do is go as deep as possible and listen at the hydrophones keeping very aware of the enemy above. Follow the guides for evading enemies above you and hope for the best. You MUST be at silent running for the thermal layer files to work. They are not a magic bullet but they have saved me on many occassions. This is only for GWX. They do not work in NYGM __________________ Nuke 'em till they glow!

01-31-08, 07:36 PM	#6
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Knowing about a thermal layer is realy only valuable in the attack, if you are going to try to come in submerged. If you are being attacked, you are going to dive and stay as deep as possible. Just because there is a thermal layer at 70m, I am still going to dive to 200m. If a thermal layer is there you are lucky, but otherwise it shouldn't really effect your tactics. Also, the Germans did have some instrument for measuring thermal layers U.Kdt.Hdb III.57.a Continual observation and measuring of water densities and temperatures are therefore important and indespensible, for establishing the presence of "stratification" when submerging to considerable depths as a means of evading pursuit by position finding. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

01-31-08, 07:38 PM	#7
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	SH3 Commander is worth your virtual soul! It's not a mod, it's a tool, which does many things for your career. Read this post and follow the link for the readme, which expains everything. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...16&postcount=5 Also, for an easy to follow list, I posted this. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...54&postcount=2 __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-30-08, 11:19 AM	#2
Uncle Goose Torpedoman Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 113 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	U-boats didn't have a Thermograph like the US subs.

01-30-08, 12:20 PM	#3
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	As far as I know only SH Commander allows a (extremely simple) simulation of a thermal layer. It's simply if you are below a certain random depth you won't hear what's on the other side, and they don't hear you. Other than your ears there is no indication of when you crossed it.

01-31-08, 04:11 PM	#5
Grayson02sept1980 中国水兵 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Germany-Bayreuth Posts: 276 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Thanks folks! But is the "Commander" worth it? I mean I play GWX with my first (second overall) campaign so... I will read about the Commander and see... Thanks for the hints!

01-31-08, 08:08 PM	#8
harzfeld Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 135 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Usually in stock, destroyers knew the instant my uboat turned its rudder, no matter how deep my uboat is. I don't believe they could do that in real life. I felt it brings down realistic of the game. I don't know if GWX removed that parameter out that was written by UBI, since I am still waiting for 2.1 to come out to find out.