Sh-3- GWX 2.0 --Thermal Layers

[thehiredgun]

If this is not the correct place for this question ,i apoligize but i was wondering if anyone knows how the Germans determined where the thermal layers were & if anything was in GWX 2.0 that modeled thermal layer & how to determine where they are ? Somebody told me that its in SH-3 Commander> I'm using 2.7 SH-3 Commander & i can't locate anything on it within SH-3 Commander

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by thehiredgun

Somebody told me that its in SH-3 Commander> I'm using 2.7 SH-3 Commander & i can't locate anything on it within SH-3 Commander

Thermal layers do not exist in SH3/GWX etc, however, they can be modelled by reducing the effects of the sensors of the AI. This is done by SH3 Cmdr using the random config, which gets 'shuffled' each time you load the game via the Cmdr shortcut.

Now, I do not want to misinform you, this Thermal Layer model that has been added effectively means that if the random cfg file sets the sensors depth to 150m, you can dive to 160m and never be detected/heard. This is the limitation of SH3's coding.

There is no way to detect Thermals while ingame, however you will know when you have passed the sensors range because the AI can't find you anymore.

People tend to forget about this 'little' Cmdr addition when they say that GWX AI is Uber. Basically, go 1m deeper than the virtual thermal and you're safe.

[Brag]

I don't think they had the means to determine thermal layers. If you dive deep enough, you improve the chances of having a thermal layer to deflect asdic. Thermal layers in GWX are a randon event. That may explain why, sometimes it is easier to get away from escorts than others.

[GoldenRivet]

Americans had a thermalgraph (at least i think thats the name) if im not mistaken, it would measure the outside water temperature and when there was a sudden and rapid change in temperature they knew they were passing a thermal layer.

German subs did not have this. the only way they were able to assume they had passed a thermal layer was if the enemy continued to attack a much shallower position or the wrong position entirely.

[BulSoldier]

The sensors could be affected by plancton (microscopic little creatures in the oceans and seas(not sure this is the name in english)) but they arent in sh3.

[GoldenRivet]

if you are suing SH3 Commander - the thermal layer position is completely randomized and you will never know where it is. just like in real life. it might be at 110 meters or it might be at 300... you just never know, and there is know normal means for finding out either.

also you should be aware that SH3 Commander adjusts the thermal layer globally not locally. in other words... in real life the position and depth of the thermal layer varies from place to place around the world... in SH3 Commander it makes it the same depth for all over the planet.

[BulSoldier]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

also you should be aware that SH3 Commander adjusts the thermal layer globally not locally. in other words... in real life the position and depth of the thermal layer varies from place to place around the world... in SH3 Commander it makes it the same depth for all over the planet.

Thats i call globalization...

[i_b_spectre]

Originally Posted by danlisa

Thermal layers do not exist in SH3/GWX etc, however, they can be modelled by reducing the effects of the sensors of the AI. This is done by SH3 Cmdr using the random config, which gets 'shuffled' each time you load the game via the Cmdr shortcut.

Is this shuffled random config built into SH3 Cmdr or is it somewhere in a cfg file that must be modified?? I'm running v2.7.0.130 and the only selectable random options I see are "days spent in base" and "gramophone tracks" under Career Options.

[GoldenRivet]

it does it on its own randomly. IIRC there is a CFG file within SH3 Commander that overwrites the default AI sensors maximum detection depth to a shallower value. It does this every time you launch SH3 via SH3 commander.

Once the game is closed, IIRC SH3 commander resets the default AI sensor detection depth back to normal.

thats sort of how it works - you wont find this option in the menu anywhere

[thehiredgun]

Thanks ,Thehiredgun

[danlisa]

From the Randomised Events.cfg from Cmdr:

[0:data\Library\AI_Sensors.dat]
;Randomly adjusts active/passive listening device values to simulate the impact of thermal layers - by Hemisent
;Only MinHeight values are changed
ChooseFrom=10
RndMidPat=1

0_x0470=-105 ;AI_Hydrophone
0_x05FC=-90 ;AI_Sonar
0_x0784=-105 ;QGAP
0_x090C=-105 ;QClP
0_x0A94=-105 ;QCeP
0_x0C20=-108 ;Type144P
0_x0DAC=-105 ;Type138P
0_x0F38=-100 ;Type128P
0_x10C4=-100 ;Type123P
0_x124C=-90 ;QGAA
0_x142B=-88 ;QClA
0_x160A=-93 ;QCeA
0_x17ED=-95 ;Type147A
0_x19D0=-98 ;Type144A
0_x1BB3=-85 ;Type128A
0_x1D96=-88 ;Type123A

etc......

These values will be changed everytime you open Sh3 Cmdr and load via that GUI interface. They will not be changed if you start the game via the standard GWX shortcut.

They are always on, unless you delete that section from the config.

[i_b_spectre]

Outstanding! Thanks for the clarification.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Americans had a thermalgraph (at least i think thats the name) if im not mistaken, it would measure the outside water temperature and when there was a sudden and rapid change in temperature they knew they were passing a thermal layer.

Bathythermograph. They appeared en masse in US subs from around the beginning of 1943.

Technology on German U-boats was a smidge more primitive and certainly less accurate - they drew water into the boat and measured it with Mr Thermometer, most likely when checking salt content. In fact some sources say that the Salinometer also measured temperature. For example, from U-490 interrogation report:

(E) Salinometer:

An instrument for measuring the salt content of water was in the control room. It was described as a graduated glass tube, about 12 inches in length and tapering toward the top. It was weighted with lead shot and floated in a metal cylinder which had connection with the outside seawater. Some prisoners believed that this instrument could indicate water temperature and density as well as salt content.

Check out Jürgen Oesten's video interview with the devs where he talks about thermal layers and detection (or lack thereof) of same.

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

also you should be aware that SH3 Commander adjusts the thermal layer globally not locally. in other words... in real life the position and depth of the thermal layer varies from place to place around the world... in SH3 Commander it makes it the same depth for all over the planet.

Gotta love SH3 limitations.

Actually, when I'm stationed in the Nth Atlantic I remove the first two sets of figures for the simple reason that thermoclines tend not to occur in the Nth Atlantic until well below 200 metres, which is outside normal U-boat diving depth (the only reason I don't remove the third set is that if I did I might as well remove all sets as U-boats tended not to regularly dive below 220 metres. )

I only add them back when I'm in the Med or Indian/Pacific.

[trongey]

Wow. I'm a bit surprised by all of this. The thermal layer was pretty well modelled in the original SH. It's odd that they would drop it from the later versions.

[deepboat]

AOD had it. Whenever you passed the thermal layer a crewmember announced "Now passing thermal layer Captain!"