Salute to the USS Cole And Her Sailors

[SteminDemon13]

Today October 12th the aniversary of the USS Cole. I would like everyone to take a moment and remember the Sailors of the USS Cole and Crew, and the 17 that perished on board due to that cowardly act of terrorism. May they rest in peace.

The Names Of Those Lost:


Chief Petty Officer Richard Costelow, Morrisville, Pennsylvania.
Signalman Seaman Recruit Cheron Luis Gunn, Rex, Georgia.
Seaman James Rodrick McDaniels, Norfolk, Virginia.
Seaman Recruit Lakiba Nicole Palmer, San Diego, California.
Operations Specialist 2nd Class Timothy Lamont Saunders, Ringgold, Virginia.
Ensign Andrew Triplett, Macon, Mississippi.
Seaman Apprentice Craig Bryan Wibberley, Williamsport, Maryland.
Hull Maintenance Technician 3rd Class, Kenneth Eugene Clodfelter, Mechanicsville, Virginia.
Mess Management Specialist Seaman Lakeina Monique Francis, Woodleaf, North Carolina.
Information Systems Technician Seaman Timothy Lee Gauna, Rice, Texas
Engineman 2nd Class Mark Ian Nieto, Fond du Lac, Wisconsin.
Electronics Warfare Technician 3rd Class Ronald Scott Owens, Vero Beach, Florida.
Engineman Fireman Joshua Langdon Parlett, Churchville, Maryland.
Fireman Apprentice Patrick Howard Roy, Cornwall on Hudson, New York.
Electronics Warfare Technician 2nd Class Kevin Shawn Rux, Portland, North Dakota.
Mess Management Specialist 3rd Class Ronchester Mananga Santiago, Kingsville, Texas
Fireman Gary Graham Swenchonis Jr., Rockport, Texas

Eternal Father Strong to save,
whos arm hath bound the restless wave,
who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep
its own appointed limits to keep;
Oh Hear us when we cry to thee,
for those in peril on the sea!

[Iceman87]

Hooyah. o7

[Rockin Robbins]

We can never forget the nature of the enemy we face. He cannot be negotiated with, for he will never negotiate in good faith. We cannot change our conduct so he will not attack us, he hates us for what we ARE, not what we do. He was a war with us for a full ten years (thanks to Clinton's policy of History on Hold) before we tentatively fought back. Read Osama bin Laden's statement of last month, a mini-Mein Kampf, setting forth their motivation and goals. Ignore it and condemn hundreds of thousands to death. Withdraw and a dark shadow will follow our troops back to a new theater of warfare: the United States homeland.

Badly handled or not, Iraq has accomplished one thing: protecting Americans and Europeans, being the best terrorist magnet we can deploy. Men trained to defend themselves and make the enemy pay ten or a hundred times for every American, British, Australian, etc, life they take are saving the lives of MANY more helpless and innocent civilians at home.

Liberals believe that this conflict is the result of the misconduct of the Western world, and that withdrawal will end the conflict. It will not be, but as Winston Churchill said, will only be "the end of the beginning." What will follow may look like the consequences of Nevill Chamberlain's "peace in our time." Hillary Clinton is likely to be the new Woodrow Wilson. "She took us out of war" will become "kill the @#$@###s."

Putting on my pessimist glasses here, there are only three questions to be answered. How many will die? When do we start? Whose innocent civilians die? Who wins is not in doubt, only the price of victory is being decided. Abraham Lincoln said it during a much more tragic conflict. It is now up to us that "we here resolve that" these brave men and women of the USS Cole have not died in vain.

[hyperion2206]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Badly handled or not, Iraq has accomplished one thing: protecting Americans and Europeans, being the best terrorist magnet we can deploy. Men trained to defend themselves and make the enemy pay ten or a hundred times for every American, British, Australian, etc, life they take are saving the lives of MANY more helpless and innocent civilians at home.

I'm sorry to hijack this thread but did I understand you correctly: Because of the Iraq war all potential terrorists are going into Iraq instead of attacking targets in the USA or Europe?
If that's what you meant then I'll have to strongly disagree: If Iraq hadn't been invaded there wouldn't be as many terrorists as there are now. Saddam was scum but he detested Al Qaida, had he stayed in power I raq wouldn't be a breeding ground for terrorsits.

[Rockin Robbins]

I'm sorry to hijack this thread but did I understand you correctly: Because of the Iraq war all potential terrorists are going into Iraq instead of attacking targets in the USA or Europe?
If that's what you meant then I'll have to strongly disagree: If Iraq hadn't been invaded there wouldn't be as many terrorists as there are now. Saddam was scum but he detested Al Qaida, had he stayed in power I raq wouldn't be a breeding ground for terrorsits.

1. Fools say the word all when talking about any human behavior. I merely said that our troops in Iraq are the best terrorist magnet there is. They are trained and equipped to deal with the danger, defenseless civilians are not.

2. President Clinton seems to have disagreed with you before reversing course after the invasion of Iraq. One of his most celebrated actions was the cruise missle attack on the Al Qaida training camp in northern Iraq.

Of course those in a position of having embraced defeat have forgotten all about that now. They also won't remind you of the single shell which contained enough sarin gas to kill 60,000 people. And won't remind you that on nationwide news when American troops were just outside Bagdad, the order was issued to the Iraqi army releasing them to use the WMD's. This was reported on all broadcast and print media, in real time. There is much we do not know about what has happened, what is happening and what is to happen over there.

I know that the truth isn't fashionable right now, but I've never been a fashionable kind of guy and when the smoke clears, shazzam! it usually turns out I'm not the dummy I appear.

It is historically appropriate that Hillary Clinton will likely become the instrument of destruction for radical Islam, just as "he kept us out of war" Wilson did during World War I and "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" Roosevelt did in WWII. Liberals make great hammers because they react with such fury when betrayed. Right now, the radical Islamics think we're about to elect a nice soft, cowardly liberal. They're about to find out how wrong they are, and so are a lot of left wing Democrats and conservative Republicans who coincidentally believe the same thing. I assure you, we live in very interesting times.

[don1reed]

2. President Clinton seems to have disagreed with you before reversing course after the invasion of Iraq. One of his most celebrated actions was the cruise missle attack on the Al Qaida training camp in northern Iraq.

...I believe the attacks were in, Afghanistan and the Sudan. The attack in Iraq was against, Suddam for messing with the Kurds...

Here's to the USS Cole and her noble crew.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by don1reed

...I believe the attacks were in, Afghanistan and the Sudan. The attack in Iraq was against, Suddam for messing with the Kurds...

Here's to the USS Cole and her noble crew.

The satellite pictures of the terrorist training camp in Iraq were in just about every newspaper in the country and on all national television news networks. So was the story and pictures about the sarin gas artillery shell and the orders to use the WMDs on troops attacking Bagdad. One of those shells was even detonated around our troops, but a contrary wind blew the gas in the wrong direction. I believe there were no casualties from that shell. Our memories tend to be shaped by our worldview, unfortunately, and the facts are trampled. Just for one link to a positive test of an Iraqi terrorist training camp for WMD gasses by MSNBC, a news organization not particularly in love with the war, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3070394/. Note that although the camp was apparently not run by Sadaam, it certainly must be presumed to have been there with his approval.

Salute! to all servicemen in all our western countries' militaries, who risk their lives so that ours might be safer. Gone are the days when our military organizations' purpose is conquest (and good riddance!). Now left are those tough choices of when to use them to defend against enemies of our civilization. Seldom are those choices easy or clearcut. Many times those choices must go against what we wish we could do. Duty takes us to strange and forbidding places, like ships which sink on purpose!

[don1reed]

Ok, RR, but you said, Clinton, He was out of office when the attacks you refer to took place. Freudian slip?

All the best,

[Digital_Trucker]

Here's to the lost crewmembers of the Cole and to all the servicepeople who serve so that we may have these "discussions".

[Rockin Robbins]

President Clinton ordered a mass cruise missile attack, using a high proportion of the number of missles that were used in Gulf War I by the way, during his preidential term. One target was the celebrated "aspirin factory" (still think there was something fishy about that one, hard to believe he could be so badly fooled), and another was the terrorist camp in northern Iraq, which justified the investment of several missiles all by itself. Actually I have found two and possibly three cruise missile attacks on Iraq by President Clinton, the first one I found in 1993. He was a firm believer that Sadaam sponsored and trained terrorists including Abu Nidal's group and Al Qaida. My personal belief is that he was intimidated by them into contributing cash and training areas. The result is the same.

@digital: And how! We can't even discuss this unless we're alive to do it. And the fact that these guys are volunteers (no draftees in any western nation's armies, are there?) deepens our debt to them. I wish we lived in a world where they were not necessary.