The bow torp of death.

[Tontoman]

Hello, been playing GWX for the first time and I noticed lots of changes to the ship damage model. Alls good, love the sinking time, doesn't always blow up, doesn't run at 10+ kts still while listing 30% etc. but find something quirky.

At first due to the tougher ships I tried hitting the engine area to at least cripple the ship so I could deal with it later once the convoy past. No 100% explosions like SH3 original (yea!) but no engine failure either. Reloaded the save and tried again moving my shooting point around, can't get the engine to fail no matter what.. even after fast forwarding (failure due to flooding).

So try bow shots instead.... sunk, sunk and sunk. Now is this intentional and any connection to real life, or just quirk of the game? I'm wondering if the stern of the boat has more compartments modeled for fuel, engine etc. and so doesn't take as much water and sink now sinking is mainly based on flooding. I can see how a hole in the bow could be worse with all the water being pushed in... but it's also just storage space as opposed to fuel, engine etc. and if the compartments where the same size they should flood the same.

Still a great improvement, but what's up?

CHeers
T.

[TarJak]

I can say I've played GWX since its release and have found that yes the bow shot is almost certainly a kill shot, but also that I have been able to disable engines and also get a fuel bunker/ammo store explosion as well. Can't say that it has happened more or less than with other mods or stock that I have seen but like you think that the sinking times are relatively realistic. I get a good mix of slow sinkers and quick one shots to make me happy

[KeybdFlyer]

Hitting the engine room to slow or stop a vessel is my standard technique and does the trick maybe 75% of the time, whereas hitting the bow has only "worked" for me on a few occasions - so I'm guessing there must be a degree of randomness built in. The last sinking of the game I've just left was an armed Large Cargo. I had one torpedo left (stern tube) so went for the engines, deciding to try to slow or stop it and then risk surfacing some way off to hopefully approach unseen and use the deck gun to finish it off. There was no need, the mid-hull hit sank the ship so quickly it had disappeared completely by the time I'd raised the 'scope again to check what speed it had slowed to. The GWX damage modelling suits me just fine! I enjoy never knowing for sure just what hit will give what result.

[Tontoman]

Weird, replayed the convoy strike 10 times and those bow shots are almost 100%, 10-30 min sinking times. That's on large merchants though, might be different on other ships. Those are also the ones I couldn't get the engines on. I'm assuming the locations are similar at least to SH3 for fuel storage, engines etc. ??

Then again, a mag trigger dead center on a small merchant broke the sucker in half which is what I'd expect

Cheers
T.

[Nichren]

Is it a function of automatic targetting vs manual targetting...I remember reading somewhere the critical hit chance is different? Auto always crits?

[Penelope_Grey]

No auto targeting does not always produce a critical hit. If you can get your boat within 1000m of the target and have it so you are at a 90 degree angle like a big L shape.

The vertical part of the L being the ships course and the horzontal part being your course.

If you hit "Ship" on the little notepad which identifies what you are looking at. The recog manual will show the vulnerable point on the ship. The torpedo running depth also plays a factor in the sinking.

As I rule of thumb for impact torpedoes I set them to run half way between the waterline and the keel. In rough weather I make them run nearer to the surface.

Generally speaking the bow is a good place to hit the ships because as the bow floods the ship is still moving so it effectively drives itself under.

Bigger ships need about 2 torpedoes and if you put a double shot in the bow area you can take out a number of compartments in the front of the ship. So one torpedo goes into the bow, the other goes forward of midships. It will sink like a brick.

On warships that is a different story but not totally, the fore ammo bunker is usually in the bow underneath the gun turret(s) hit that and its going to go up like a beast! But bear in mind warships, particularly cruisers and battle ships, are tougher targets than merchant ships.

a) they go faster
b) armour.

So really against a battle ship, you'd empty all your bow tubes at him with one going to the ammo bunker the other 3 in a spread forward of midships to do as much damage as possible.

Taking out the propellors is a perfectly good strategy for warships, if he can't move he can't dodge your shots. And you are underwater so he can't shoot you either. You can take your time.

Generally speaking though for no nonsense sinkings, blast the bow with a double shot on the larger ships, and for smaller like tramp steamers, small merchants etc... one torpedo half way between the bow and midships will put them under.

So yeah, that's where I do all my shooting now.

[Brag]

To get the engine room, a magnetic with a 40 degree AOB aimed slightly forward of the bridge works well.

[TarJak]

If you follow Pen's advice you should get good rates of critical hits. One of the reasons you may be seeing very repeatable results is that the critical hit values are NOT reset each time you load a save game so looking at ShipA then saving going back and having another crack at it will give you the same critical hit values that you saved each time. If you ran a test with multiple ships then you would see some variation in the values for each ship in the test. The values are generated when the ship is spawned IIRC.

[Nichren]

From the newbie guide thread

What are the differences between Auto and Manual Targeting

Well pretty much 2 things, in auto the game does all the work for you, its practicaly just point and shoot. Also with impact torpedos when using auto targeting, if the torpedo hits a section of a ship that has a critical explosion chance, you will get a critical explosion each and every time vs a random chance with manual.


So I take it that this is no longer applicable in GWX?????

[Penelope_Grey]

No, automatic targeting is not quite just point and shoot, the difference is, with auto targeting, you don't need to work out range, speed of ship, or the AOB the computer does that part for you. Depth, pistol, and speed are determined by you.

It is point and fire to a degree, but if you just point the scope or Uzo at something and press fire you are still leaving a hell of a lot to chance. Even with automatic targeting you still need to get into a good firing position to the ship. You still need to make sure your torpedo is set to the right depth for optimal destruction, and you still need to get to firing position without spooking your target.

All in all, if you have not managed to get a good firing position the rest is useless.

[Brag]

[quote=Penelope_
. . . You still need to make sure your torpedo is set to the right depth for optimal destruction, and you still need to get to firing position without spooking your target.

All in all, if you have not managed to get a good firing position the rest is useless.[/quote]

Yup! That's the whole secret of U-boat success

[Jimbuna]

I know I'm on record on numerous other threads re: this topic but my preferred method is to aim for the aft or engine area (whether it be magnetic or impact setting).
The very least you can expect if the ship does not sink would be it coming to a halt, therefore making it a sitting duck for DG or a coupe de grace.
In a convoy situation the escorts would eventually leave it and get back to the job of escorting the convoy.
For those who want a hint where the sweet spots are (based on stock SH3) there is a file called 'shipchart' available from my sig.