Question for all you 100% realism players!

[Susanna]

Hello!

I recently got SH III and now I am increasing slowly the realism settings, which is great fun indeed. (How proud I was when the first manual targeted torpedo hit! ) But now after turning off the last option 'automated map updates' it seems I have hit a brick wall. Without exactly knowing where the hostile ships are its hard to reach a good intercept point, let alone fire torpedos that hit correctly.


For example, how do I best calculate target range?

I understand the 'notepad method' for measuring range, and it works fine in a tutorial setting (calm waves, target 1000 meters away) but during a real campaign with stormy weather, when the periscope dances up and down and the ship is still a good 3 kilometers away, my measurements seem to be way off or its simply impossible to have the periscope hold still long enough to get a fix.


How do you calculate torpedo settings?

Right now I measure things out of the map and enter them into the TDC, as explained in Dantenoc's great "How to sink a ship" guide. But without map updates that's impossible, and as I don't know how get a ships exact position in the first place, I can't plot the ship in the map manually. *sigh*

I'd be happy about any help or tips whatsoever!

Captain-in-training Susanna

[Kunsa]

http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/#...al%20Targeting


I found this useful.

[Brag]

Susanna, welcome to this nest of ruffians!

I found that plotting targets manually was too time consuming for my liking. I used the running fix method in which, you take one bearing, plot your own course, take another bearing 3 minutes later or longer. Take a new bearing and advance your last bearing at the estimated speed of your target to get a fix. The system is fairly accurate.

[Andyman23]

Originally Posted by Brag

Susanna, welcome to this nest of ruffians!

I found that plotting targets manually was too time consuming for my liking. I used the running fix method in which, you take one bearing, plot your own course, take another bearing 3 minutes later or longer. Take a new bearing and advance your last bearing at the estimated speed of your target to get a fix. The system is fairly accurate.

thats exactly what i do and it works perfectly. i basically estimate the AOB, use the stadimeter to estimate the range, and then i calculate speed by timing how long the ship takes to get from one point to another and use a simple equation.

for example, lets say its a big fat tanker and lets just assume that its 150 meters long. position your scope on the front of the tanker and hold it there whilst timing and stop timing when the end of the ship reaches that point. lets just say it took 50 seconds. so therefore it took 50 seconds to travel 150 meters....so:

you take 150/50 and get 3. you then take 3*2 and get 6. therefore the tanker is going 6 knots.

hope that helps

btw ive noticed that not having the exact range but something close is good enough, i think the AOB and especially speed are the most important things in manual targeting.

[DAB]

Originally Posted by Susanna

Hello!

I recently got SH III and now I am increasing slowly the realism settings, which is great fun indeed. (How proud I was when the first manual targeted torpedo hit! ) But now after turning off the last option 'automated map updates' it seems I have hit a brick wall. Without exactly knowing where the hostile ships are its hard to reach a good intercept point, let alone fire torpedos that hit correctly.


For example, how do I best calculate target range?

I understand the 'notepad method' for measuring range, and it works fine in a tutorial setting (calm waves, target 1000 meters away) but during a real campaign with stormy weather, when the periscope dances up and down and the ship is still a good 3 kilometers away, my measurements seem to be way off or its simply impossible to have the periscope hold still long enough to get a fix.


How do you calculate torpedo settings?

Right now I measure things out of the map and enter them into the TDC, as explained in Dantenoc's great "How to sink a ship" guide. But without map updates that's impossible, and as I don't know how get a ships exact position in the first place, I can't plot the ship in the map manually. *sigh*

I'd be happy about any help or tips whatsoever!

Captain-in-training Susanna

Welcome onboard - and welcome to the real frustrations of the 100%

http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/ - the link was given by Kunsa, but its worth posting twice. I suggest you follow through all of this whilst using the convoy attack training mission. It gives you the chance to practice against a slow moving convoy under what are reletively ideal conditions. Remember though - the measuring tool is inaccurate in SHIII (and SHIV) so follow the workaround given above.

The rolling periscope is perhaps the most frustrating part of SHIII, in reality you would have repremanded the Chief Engineer for not holding the trim well and got him to rectify it. Of course, we captains can't do that.

I follow two solutions. The first is to judge with my eye what mark is accurate and then simply move the notpad option line to the mark I have memorised (it doesn't matter that your not by that point lined up - the range will still work).

The second is to lock the periscope on the target, and use the mouse to compensate for the movement of the waves. Again, I memorise the neccecery mark on the periscope and then set the line at that point afterwards.

Finally. Remember, this is the 100% realism club. Your citing is no longer done by a computer that knows the exact dimensions of the ship down to a foot and by a person backed up by a computerised notpad that can compare the perspective of the player to the target. Unless your Otto Kretchmer reincarnate - you will have to use a broad spread of torpedos to compensate for human error

...and thats whats so rewarding about the 100% club - the skill you will have demonstrated when you make that first torpedo hit!!!

[Kunsa]

another thing that you might consider. If you like your realism at 110%
you could use trigonometry like i do to calculate range and angle on the bow.

its simple high school stuff

Range = mast height * tan(angle in degrees)

AOB involves using the actual visible width/real width from recognition manual/ and the law of sines to determine an angle deviation from 90 degrees

[Puster Bill]

I actually play at 95% realism: I keep the stabilized view. That makes it easier to use the stadimeter to estimate the range.

But honestly, I use the Watch Officer when I'm on the surface. I have him give me the range and bearing to the closest target (which is almost invariably the one I want to attack anyway).

One thing that will help you is to get Hitman's Kriegsmarine Whiz-wheel. The thread is here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114351

To do the targeting calculations, you just need the backside of it:


It works, it's somewhat authentic The frontside is completely authentic, Hitman copied it from a picture of a real one. He had to 'imagine' what this side looked like, but I think he did an excellent job.


Anyway, you can use one of those to find the AOB and speed of a target given two observations consisting of range and bearing, with any reasonable period of time separating the two.

The only real drawback is that the target has to have made an apparent movement of at least 6 degrees in bearing, so for very slow targets it takes a while to get the necessary movement.

[TarJak]

Welcome to Subsim Sussanna. It looks like you are in good hands so I won;t add to the confusion. Gute Jagd!

[Nuoz]

I usually keep contacts on because of the above. Not hardcore enough to print the wheel, not softcore enough to have any extra options on.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by DAB

The rolling periscope is perhaps the most frustrating part of SHIII, in reality you would have repremanded the Chief Engineer for not holding the trim well and got him to rectify it. Of course, we captains can't do that.

I follow two solutions. The first is to judge with my eye what mark is accurate and then simply move the notpad option line to the mark I have memorised (it doesn't matter that your not by that point lined up - the range will still work).

The second is to lock the periscope on the target, and use the mouse to compensate for the movement of the waves. Again, I memorise the neccecery mark on the periscope and then set the line at that point afterwards.

Keep in mind, the stadimeter in SH3 is not accurately depicted. It should've worked just like the one in SH4, a double image. So in reality you wouldn't need to reprimand your crew... the dual-view prism view would've moved in-sync with the wave action; just like it does in SH4.

To compensate for this shortcoming, I allow myself to turn on the stad in SH3 and when I get the line close to the waterline and have a decent view of the ship I pause the game. You can then adjust the line to measure the height without wave action interference. Measuring without wave action interference is actually closer to 100% than what they've modelled in the game.

So the takeaways are:
1) you can adjust the stadimeter with the game paused in SH3
2) you don't have to feel like it's a cheat, removing the wave action is actually closer to correct
3) SH4 has it modelled accurately and wave action is not an issue

[Puster Bill]

OK, then why not just use stabilized view? You're still at 95% realism that way. That's what I do.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by Puster Bill

OK, then why not just use stabilized view? You're still at 95% realism that way. That's what I do.

Do I really have to answer?

They didn't have a view stabilizer. If your only reason for using it is bypassing wave action, try pausing.
Aside from the poor implementation of the stad, it's more accurate to have the wave action in there.

I do all the plotting in my head as a true Kaleun! I begun with 90° attacks and watching how torp goes with F12. That way now I do most of my shots with my eye. More or less speed and distance (under 1000 its just an eye, above little help with "double" view to determine dist in thousands), aob is simple, when going from ~90° its easy, when inside the convoy and knowing their course i know the exact aob and do crazy "arc" shots (torp goes stright, than turns to hit it's target from 90°

In SH3 ships don't do crazy things like advanced zig-zag mentioned in Das Boot book so it's very very simple with some experience. The key is not to use the map (it all started from real navigation), just rely on your course, add or subtract values, you'll know exactly what is happening and how in your imagination. When you hear a contact reports from your SO you know by your instincts where is the enemy. Just like an experienced Kaleun did.



PS I've tried slide ruler - it's amazing but didn't have time to do the maths when in the heart of convoy.
PS2 I use only impact triggers with results like huge tanker wiped with one eel...

good luck

[Canovaro]

Originally Posted by Susanna

For example, how do I best calculate target range?

I understand the 'notepad method' for measuring range, and it works fine in a tutorial setting (calm waves, target 1000 meters away) but during a real campaign with stormy weather, when the periscope dances up and down and the ship is still a good 3 kilometers away, my measurements seem to be way off or its simply impossible to have the periscope hold still long enough to get a fix.

Hi new member!

Did you know you can move the periscope range finder more subtile with the CTRL-key pressed?