More newbie questions - this time: anti-air tactics.

ppk · 11-14-08, 04:25 PM

So what's the word on that? I've seen quite a few articles about evading early war & late war DDs but the ones I read didn't say much about anti-air at all. Can you fight your way out on the surface with the big quad flak you can get in late war or is it just not worth the risk? And what about early war? I haven't encountered many aircraft so far and only one has attacked me (and damaged my boat..). My crewmen definitely need to improve their marksmanship because they couldn't hit it at all and i got bombed... survived though, but i was still damaged.

GoldenRivet · 11-14-08, 04:41 PM

even if you shoot down an airplane you will almost always suffer heavy damage or casualties.

in the stock game, gun crews were almost invincible to gunfire. fact is there is little protection for an AA gunner or deck gunner on a u-boat.

so, GWX scaled the AA gunner invincibility way down to virtually nothing.

this coincides with history as most u-boat sinkings were credited to aircraft.

remember - tracers go both ways!

and the machine guns on aircraft range from 30 caliber up to and occasionally beyond 20 mm. - thats a little bit smaller than a golf ball

even with a U-Flak tower... chances are - coming away clean are very slim, especially late war when air to surface rockets start showing up.

the rockets are fast as hell - and they pack enough punch to destroy entire compartments with a single hit. and most planes equipped with them begin to travel in packs of two.

you wont see many aircraft up until about 1943... after that you will probably see more planes than ships.

U-boats are NOT anti-aircraft platforms... and should not be used as such. its very hard to hit a fast moving airborne target from a pitching and rolling U-Boat tower.

always crash dive.

Wreford-Brown · 11-14-08, 05:19 PM

Alaarrrmm!

Brag · 11-14-08, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

U-boats are NOT anti-aircraft platforms... and should not be used as such. its very hard to hit a fast moving airborne target from a pitching and rolling U-Boat tower.

always crash dive.

EXACTLY!!!!!

ppk · 11-14-08, 05:45 PM

Well then why bother having all those big guns? I know it doesn't make a difference in GWX but in real life, that big U-Flak conning tower must have caused loads of drag and reduce performance underwater. Did they think they [german engineers or whoever it is that decided this] could survive on the surface at the time?

Piggy · 11-14-08, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppk

Well then why bother having all those big guns? I know it doesn't make a difference in GWX but in real life, that big U-Flak conning tower must have caused loads of drag and reduce performance underwater. Did they think they [german engineers or whoever it is that decided this] could survive on the surface at the time?

U-Flak Boats were used to escort normal U-boats in and out of port, Im not sure if these boats ever went out on actual patrols.

I think they only converted 4, at first they were pretty successfull at giving the RAF a nasty surprise, but eventaully the allies just used different tactics.

The flak boats were converted back to regular VII's...

I tried duking it out with a plane in 42 east of gibralter, I shot it down but lost my gunner in the process, not to mention some other damages.

Not worth it, just dive.

Mittelwaechter · 11-14-08, 06:17 PM

Best option: DIVE!

If you have to stay at the surface (maybe because you are loading external torpedos), there are some aspects to consider:
- try to show your broadside to the incoming airplane/s. It's easy for them to aim the correct direction, but it's harder to chose the right drop point. Often they drop short or the bombs fly over your head. It's way easier to hit your boat approaching from the back or the front. Remember your gunners refuse to shoot over your tower.
- change your speed. I prefer to go at half speed until they start to dive and shoot - then I speed up to flank.
- change your course slightly into their direction (~ 20°) when they start their attack. It's harder to keep aim on you.
- don't waste ammunition by shooting over far distances. The gunners accuracy is quite bad (GWX 2.0), but you may hit a score at short distances.
- shoot at incoming airplanes for best results. My boys never hit the leaving bees.
- try to man the guns in the last moment to keep your crew more or less safely.
- have a repaircrew ready - you'll need them.

Last week I managed to down two Mosquitos southwest of Ireland. It's summer of '43 and they pinned some holes into our trusty VIIB/2 but we gladly made it.
This career we lost already three AA gunners and three men of the torpedo reloading team. (I man the deckgun for reloading externals and stay surfaced the last 20 minutes)

Red Heat · 11-14-08, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

even if you shoot down an airplane you will almost always suffer heavy damage or casualties.

in the stock game, gun crews were almost invincible to gunfire. fact is there is little protection for an AA gunner or deck gunner on a u-boat.

so, GWX scaled the AA gunner invincibility way down to virtually nothing.

this coincides with history as most u-boat sinkings were credited to aircraft.

remember - tracers go both ways!

and the machine guns on aircraft range from 30 caliber up to and occasionally beyond 20 mm. - thats a little bit smaller than a golf ball

even with a U-Flak tower... chances are - coming away clean are very slim, especially late war when air to surface rockets start showing up.

the rockets are fast as hell - and they pack enough punch to destroy entire compartments with a single hit. and most planes equipped with them begin to travel in packs of two.

you wont see many aircraft up until about 1943... after that you will probably see more planes than ships.

U-boats are NOT anti-aircraft platforms... and should not be used as such. its very hard to hit a fast moving airborne target from a pitching and rolling U-Boat tower.

always crash dive.

I think you said all...

Graf Paper · 11-14-08, 10:22 PM

As the wise sensei, Sunabōzu, has said...

"Remember kids, a wise man knows...when to run like a little b*tch!"

That more or less sums up the entire book of defensive tactics for u-boat commanders.
:p

papa_smurf · 11-15-08, 06:10 AM

Dive! Dive! Dive!

meduza · 11-15-08, 07:09 AM

Dive. Or else...

bigboywooly · 11-15-08, 07:17 AM

Not nice them rockets at all

Murr44 · 11-15-08, 08:03 AM

I didn't see this mentioned so I'd like to add that you should also keep in mind that sunset & sunrise can be very dangerous times for your boat. "Bees" (enemy planes) can be on top of you before your watch crew spot the threat. I frequently travel at periscope depth during the day when I'm in areas of high allied air activity. I only surface an hour or two after sunset & then run at full ahead to recharge the batteries as quickly as possible.

Another thing to remember is when you get radar later in the war, use it sparingly & make sure that it's turned off when you're done using it. Forgetting to do this is just saying "Here I am. Come and get me".

I forgot once & was found by a Catalina on a pitch black overcast night, miles from anywhere. I managed to dive & escape but it was pretty

close!

Jimbuna · 11-15-08, 09:44 AM

What a pack of woosies....just engage the klingon cloaking device and no one will even notice your surfaced

meduza · 11-15-08, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

What a pack of woosies....just engage the klingon cloaking device and no one will even notice your surfaced

Or play the stock game and shoot the planes at will

:rotfl:

11-14-08, 04:25 PM	#1
ppk Machinist's Mate Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 125 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	More newbie questions - this time: anti-air tactics. So what's the word on that? I've seen quite a few articles about evading early war & late war DDs but the ones I read didn't say much about anti-air at all. Can you fight your way out on the surface with the big quad flak you can get in late war or is it just not worth the risk? And what about early war? I haven't encountered many aircraft so far and only one has attacked me (and damaged my boat..). My crewmen definitely need to improve their marksmanship because they couldn't hit it at all and i got bombed... survived though, but i was still damaged. Last edited by ppk; 11-14-08 at 04:28 PM.

11-14-08, 04:41 PM	#2
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	even if you shoot down an airplane you will almost always suffer heavy damage or casualties. in the stock game, gun crews were almost invincible to gunfire. fact is there is little protection for an AA gunner or deck gunner on a u-boat. so, GWX scaled the AA gunner invincibility way down to virtually nothing. this coincides with history as most u-boat sinkings were credited to aircraft. remember - tracers go both ways! and the machine guns on aircraft range from 30 caliber up to and occasionally beyond 20 mm. - thats a little bit smaller than a golf ball even with a U-Flak tower... chances are - coming away clean are very slim, especially late war when air to surface rockets start showing up. the rockets are fast as hell - and they pack enough punch to destroy entire compartments with a single hit. and most planes equipped with them begin to travel in packs of two. you wont see many aircraft up until about 1943... after that you will probably see more planes than ships. U-boats are NOT anti-aircraft platforms... and should not be used as such. its very hard to hit a fast moving airborne target from a pitching and rolling U-Boat tower. always crash dive. __________________ Last edited by GoldenRivet; 11-14-08 at 04:44 PM.

11-14-08, 05:19 PM	#3
Wreford-Brown Sea Lord Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In sight of Stonehenge Posts: 1,750 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 26	Alaarrrmm! __________________ All my mods are available at MediaFire: SH3 Mods Other modders SH3 mods SH4 Mods ...you can't please all of the people all of the time...

11-14-08, 06:17 PM	#7
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Best option: DIVE! If you have to stay at the surface (maybe because you are loading external torpedos), there are some aspects to consider: - try to show your broadside to the incoming airplane/s. It's easy for them to aim the correct direction, but it's harder to chose the right drop point. Often they drop short or the bombs fly over your head. It's way easier to hit your boat approaching from the back or the front. Remember your gunners refuse to shoot over your tower. - change your speed. I prefer to go at half speed until they start to dive and shoot - then I speed up to flank. - change your course slightly into their direction (~ 20°) when they start their attack. It's harder to keep aim on you. - don't waste ammunition by shooting over far distances. The gunners accuracy is quite bad (GWX 2.0), but you may hit a score at short distances. - shoot at incoming airplanes for best results. My boys never hit the leaving bees. - try to man the guns in the last moment to keep your crew more or less safely. - have a repaircrew ready - you'll need them. Last week I managed to down two Mosquitos southwest of Ireland. It's summer of '43 and they pinned some holes into our trusty VIIB/2 but we gladly made it. This career we lost already three AA gunners and three men of the torpedo reloading team. (I man the deckgun for reloading externals and stay surfaced the last 20 minutes) __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE

11-14-08, 10:22 PM	#9
Graf Paper Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pacific Northwest United States Posts: 1,146 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 2	As the wise sensei, Sunabōzu, has said... "Remember kids, a wise man knows...when to run like a little b*tch!" That more or less sums up the entire book of defensive tactics for u-boat commanders. :p __________________ Still sailing the high seas, hunting convoys with those who join me.

11-14-08, 05:45 PM	#5
ppk Machinist's Mate Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 125 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Well then why bother having all those big guns? I know it doesn't make a difference in GWX but in real life, that big U-Flak conning tower must have caused loads of drag and reduce performance underwater. Did they think they [german engineers or whoever it is that decided this] could survive on the surface at the time?

11-15-08, 06:10 AM	#10
papa_smurf Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2,851 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Dive! Dive! Dive! __________________

11-15-08, 07:09 AM	#11
meduza Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: on patrol Posts: 1,035 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Dive. Or else... __________________

11-15-08, 07:17 AM	#12
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Not nice them rockets at all __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

11-15-08, 08:03 AM	#13
Murr44 Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 913 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	I didn't see this mentioned so I'd like to add that you should also keep in mind that sunset & sunrise can be very dangerous times for your boat. "Bees" (enemy planes) can be on top of you before your watch crew spot the threat. I frequently travel at periscope depth during the day when I'm in areas of high allied air activity. I only surface an hour or two after sunset & then run at full ahead to recharge the batteries as quickly as possible. Another thing to remember is when you get radar later in the war, use it sparingly & make sure that it's turned off when you're done using it. Forgetting to do this is just saying "Here I am. Come and get me". I forgot once & was found by a Catalina on a pitch black overcast night, miles from anywhere. I managed to dive & escape but it was pretty close! Last edited by Murr44; 11-15-08 at 08:16 AM.

11-15-08, 09:44 AM	#14
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	What a pack of woosies....just engage the klingon cloaking device and no one will even notice your surfaced __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!