Effect of CO2 on crew abilities

02-15-21, 05:33 PM

Habitability is an important characteristic of a U-boat, along with combat and seaworthiness.
The limiting factor for the habitability of an enclosed space in terms of the gas composition of the air is CO2: the air becomes unfit for breathing faster due to the high CO2 content than due to the low oxygen content.
To improve the conditions for the crew and to increase the duration of stay under water on WW2 submarines, air renewal and purification means were used.
I was pleased that TWoS now has the ability to activate the air purification system. However, this can only be done once per patrol. When the air purification system is activated, the CO2 growth stops. CO2 freezes at the value where the air purification system is turned on. The air purification system is active for 12 hours. After 12 hours, the rise in CO2 resumes.
After reviewing the documentation of U Bootskunde für U Boote Bauart VII C, Stand vom 07.15.40, M.Dv. 371, 181 (U-boat Information for U-boat Type VII C, Effective 07.15.40, Navy Off. Inst. 371, 181) you will find the following:
The U-boat VIIC air purification system consists of:
Purification system: removing CO2 by means of sodium hydroxide cartridges (cartridge stock is 212 units).
Renewal system: bleeding O2 from oxygen flasks.
The air purification system maintains the CO2 content at 1.5% and an O2 content at 17.5%.
The stored oxygen and 212 sodium hydroxide cartridges enable the crew of 37 men, to remain continuously submerged for 72 hours.
CO2 content above 2% is injurious.

3 air purifiers are used for air purification connected to exhaust air duct, located as follows:
In the aft torpedo and E motor room
In the control room
In the forward torpedo room
Each air purifier consists of 4 sodium hydroxide cartridges.

Based on the information provided in the technical documentation, conclusions can be drawn:

212 sodium hydroxide cartridges keep the air at 1.5% CO2 for 72 hours. Only 12 sodium hydroxide cartridges can be in operation at the same time (3 air cleaners with 4 cartridges each). The operating time of a set of 12 cartridges is: 12 * 72/212 = 4 hours.
Thus, the air purification system can be activated for periods of time that are multiples of 4 hours, with a total duration of no more than 72 hours during the patrol: this is at least 17 times for 4 hours.

In the game, the crew feels equally well at both 10% in-game CO2 scale (i.e. 1.0% CO2 by volume) and at 90% CO2 in game scale (9.0% CO2 by volume), which is not realistic.

In real life a person is able to tolerate 1 - 2% CO2 for some time, at 3% CO2 there is mild poisoning, nausea and vomiting. At 5% CO2, disturbances of consciousness occur, working capacity is largely lost. 9 - 10% CO2 - loss of consciousness and death.

My suggestions are as follows:
1. Implement the possibility of repeated use of the air purification system, for example 17 times for 4 hours.
2. Simulate the impact of CO2 content on the crew's condition. For example, in the range of 2.0% - 5.0% CO2, disable the active abilities of the crew members that require significant physical efforts (acceleration of repairs, decrease in flooding time), reduce the effectiveness of passive abilities that require efforts and concentration of attention (hydrophone efficiency, repair speed, the speed of loading torpedoes, in addition, implement increase the time delays in the execution of orders.In the range from 5.0 to 10.0% CO2 to implement a progressive, like a snowball, a general decrease in the efficiency of the crew and its moral degradation.

To what extent do these ideas correspond to the interests of the gaming community? Are there any technical clarifications and additions to this information regarding the combat use of air purification equipment? Is it possible to technically implement these ideas in the game?

vdr1981 · 02-16-21, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpheratz

My suggestions are as follows:
1. Implement the possibility of repeated use of the air purification system, for example 17 times for 4 hours.
2. Simulate the impact of CO2 content on the crew's condition. For example, in the range of 2.0% - 5.0% CO2, disable the active abilities of the crew members that require significant physical efforts (acceleration of repairs, decrease in flooding time), reduce the effectiveness of passive abilities that require efforts and concentration of attention (hydrophone efficiency, repair speed, the speed of loading torpedoes, in addition, implement increase the time delays in the execution of orders.In the range from 5.0 to 10.0% CO2 to implement a progressive, like a snowball, a general decrease in the efficiency of the crew and its moral degradation.

To what extent do these ideas correspond to the interests of the gaming community? Are there any technical clarifications and additions to this information regarding the combat use of air purification equipment? Is it possible to technically implement these ideas in the game?

Hey Alpheratz,
I completely agree with your propositions but I'm afraid that we are quite limited in this regard. All we can do is to speed up/slow down CO2 built up rate depending of few different crew states and that's about it. Anything more advance than that would require some advanced scripting or hard code level tweaks and right now I'm not aware of any active modder who could do that, IF possible at all...

02-16-21, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Hey Alpheratz,
I completely agree with your propositions but I'm afraid that we are quite limited in this regard. All we can do is to speed up/slow down CO2 built up rate depending of few different crew states and that's about it. Anything more advance than that would require some advanced scripting or hard code level tweaks and right now I'm not aware of any active modder who could do that, IF possible at all...

I understood. Honestly, having been disappointed in 2010 with SH5, I couldn't imagine we would have a game like TWoS today.

U-190 · 10-12-21, 05:04 AM

Полностью согласен. Разработчики больше акцентировали смерть лодки от механических повреждений, чем от смерти экипажа, который нанюхался испорченного воздуха. Нужно подумать, как реализовать такой сценарий.

I totally agree. The developers focused more on the death of the boat from mechanical damage than from the death of the crew, who sniffed the spoiled air. We need to think about how to implement such a scenario.

02-15-21, 05:33 PM	#1
Alpheratz Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Effect of CO2 on crew abilities Habitability is an important characteristic of a U-boat, along with combat and seaworthiness. The limiting factor for the habitability of an enclosed space in terms of the gas composition of the air is CO2: the air becomes unfit for breathing faster due to the high CO2 content than due to the low oxygen content. To improve the conditions for the crew and to increase the duration of stay under water on WW2 submarines, air renewal and purification means were used. I was pleased that TWoS now has the ability to activate the air purification system. However, this can only be done once per patrol. When the air purification system is activated, the CO2 growth stops. CO2 freezes at the value where the air purification system is turned on. The air purification system is active for 12 hours. After 12 hours, the rise in CO2 resumes. After reviewing the documentation of U Bootskunde für U Boote Bauart VII C, Stand vom 07.15.40, M.Dv. 371, 181 (U-boat Information for U-boat Type VII C, Effective 07.15.40, Navy Off. Inst. 371, 181) you will find the following: The U-boat VIIC air purification system consists of: Purification system: removing CO2 by means of sodium hydroxide cartridges (cartridge stock is 212 units). Renewal system: bleeding O2 from oxygen flasks. The air purification system maintains the CO2 content at 1.5% and an O2 content at 17.5%. The stored oxygen and 212 sodium hydroxide cartridges enable the crew of 37 men, to remain continuously submerged for 72 hours. CO2 content above 2% is injurious. 3 air purifiers are used for air purification connected to exhaust air duct, located as follows: In the aft torpedo and E motor room In the control room In the forward torpedo room Each air purifier consists of 4 sodium hydroxide cartridges. Based on the information provided in the technical documentation, conclusions can be drawn: 212 sodium hydroxide cartridges keep the air at 1.5% CO2 for 72 hours. Only 12 sodium hydroxide cartridges can be in operation at the same time (3 air cleaners with 4 cartridges each). The operating time of a set of 12 cartridges is: 12 * 72/212 = 4 hours. Thus, the air purification system can be activated for periods of time that are multiples of 4 hours, with a total duration of no more than 72 hours during the patrol: this is at least 17 times for 4 hours. In the game, the crew feels equally well at both 10% in-game CO2 scale (i.e. 1.0% CO2 by volume) and at 90% CO2 in game scale (9.0% CO2 by volume), which is not realistic. In real life a person is able to tolerate 1 - 2% CO2 for some time, at 3% CO2 there is mild poisoning, nausea and vomiting. At 5% CO2, disturbances of consciousness occur, working capacity is largely lost. 9 - 10% CO2 - loss of consciousness and death. My suggestions are as follows: 1. Implement the possibility of repeated use of the air purification system, for example 17 times for 4 hours. 2. Simulate the impact of CO2 content on the crew's condition. For example, in the range of 2.0% - 5.0% CO2, disable the active abilities of the crew members that require significant physical efforts (acceleration of repairs, decrease in flooding time), reduce the effectiveness of passive abilities that require efforts and concentration of attention (hydrophone efficiency, repair speed, the speed of loading torpedoes, in addition, implement increase the time delays in the execution of orders.In the range from 5.0 to 10.0% CO2 to implement a progressive, like a snowball, a general decrease in the efficiency of the crew and its moral degradation. To what extent do these ideas correspond to the interests of the gaming community? Are there any technical clarifications and additions to this information regarding the combat use of air purification equipment? Is it possible to technically implement these ideas in the game?

10-12-21, 05:04 AM	#4
U-190 Duplicate account Not Allowed Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Russian Federation Nizhny Novgorod Posts: 713 Downloads: 2338 Uploads: 0	Полностью согласен. Разработчики больше акцентировали смерть лодки от механических повреждений, чем от смерти экипажа, который нанюхался испорченного воздуха. Нужно подумать, как реализовать такой сценарий. I totally agree. The developers focused more on the death of the boat from mechanical damage than from the death of the crew, who sniffed the spoiled air. We need to think about how to implement such a scenario.