Rape lists on British subs...?

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63435129

Thats why I am strictly against women serving in certain branches of the military. Submarines amongst them. Crowded space. Isolated situation. Not good. Certain tensions between both genders are encoded in our biology, are controlled by chemical processes we have no conscious control over, and fuel some people's fantasy. Its simply no good idea to motivate for that by creating such extreme situations like you have on a submarine. And that is the difference to for example Islam's attempt to eradicate all signs of feminity from public life so that disinhibited slobbering males must not start to rape them: by hiding women under a small mobile circus tents and lock them away at home: here it is about locking half of mankind from general public life and access to all of it. The submarine example is an extremely specific, narrow, specialised context not being representative for much else than itself. Thats why banning female son subamriens fo rme is okay, while bannign them form oublic life and give them dress codes is not. I see no contradiction there.

I am also against women in combat infantry units - if they do not in full qualify in physical stress and strength tests according to standards used on males. But as Martin van Crevefeld once wrote in one of his books, statistical analysis - until it was banned by govenrments! - in I think the US, Canada, Israel, maybe Australia, i am not certain - showed that female personell in military jobs from infantry to technicians in hangars on aircraft carriers suffered 6 times as many injuries during their work on their stations, than their male collegues, and before Desert Storm and the 2003 war, female infantry suddenly saw a huge spike in pregnancy leaves. Well.

Ideology never beats biology. A thick bone is a thick bone and a thinner bone is a thinner bone, and psychology is different a little bit in both genders and ruled by - hormones, sorry, to say so, but hormones are the hidden dicators we all obey, and far beyond just a reproductive context.

[Jimbuna]

I'm surprised it has taken this long for the press to make it public.

[Commander Wallace]

These episodes are also an ongoing problem in the U.S and as you pointed out, in the armed forces of other countries. These may well be for the reasons you pointed out but equally so for a complete lack of discipline.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual...tates_military

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

These episodes are also an ongoing problem in the U.S and as you pointed out, in the armed forces of other countries. These may well be for the reasons you pointed out but equally so for a complete lack of discipline.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual...tates_military

Discipline or civilizaitonal rules are our attempt - born from intellectual insight and not materially/biologically founded at all - to keep biology and primtive instincts in check. But it exists in the background, always. Keepoing it in check, is often and usually not impossiblel but when you create too exposed, articially "pointy" situations and conditions, it becomes more likely that they fail.


If you put a woman on a crossroad and have her undressing, or a male stripping in a female prison, don't be surprised you get riots and "mishaps". Better expect things to happen if you almost provoke them.



"We had to agree with Freud when he saw in our culture, our civilization, only a thin layer that can be pierced at any moment by the destructive forces of the underworld (...)" - Stefan Zweig, The World of Yesterday. Memoirs of a European

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Discipline or civilizaitonal rules are our attempt - born from intellectual insight and not materially/biologically founded at all - to keep biology and primtive instincts in check. But it exists in the background, always. Keepoing it in check, is often and usually not impossiblel but when you create too exposed, articially "pointy" situations and conditions, it becomes more likely that they fail.


If you put a woman on a crossroad and have her undressing, or a male stripping in a female prison, don't be surprised you get riots and "mishaps". Better expect things to happen if you almost provoke them.



"We had to agree with Freud when he saw in our culture, our civilization, only a thin layer that can be pierced at any moment by the destructive forces of the underworld (...)" - Stefan Zweig, The World of Yesterday. Memoirs of a European

I wasn't saying that genetics doesn't play a role. However, I assure you well regulated military units are equally well disciplined.

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I wasn't saying that genetics doesn't play a role. However, I assure you well regulated military units are equally well disciplined.

I...... Don't know. I can see women serving on an SSBN. The boat's big enough to allow some segregation and the patrols are fairly regular.

On SSN's its a different game. The quarters are much more cramped and that 4 month deployment might last a LOT longer and you can't hold to a tight schedule.

On the other side of the Rape issue is the basic issue of Power and who controls it. An innocent conversation can turn sour quickly and all of a sudden a crewperson can be dictating terms to the entire command.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

I...... Don't know. I can see women serving on an SSBN. The boat's big enough to allow some segregation and the patrols are fairly regular.

On SSN's its a different game. The quarters are much more cramped and that 4 month deployment might last a LOT longer and you can't hold to a tight schedule.

On the other side of the Rape issue is the basic issue of Power and who controls it. An innocent conversation can turn sour quickly and all of a sudden a crewperson can be dictating terms to the entire command.

As you well know, submarines are a bit different and submariners are an entirely different breed. Even serving on a boomer has it's issues with long patrols. Patrols on attack boats can be equally as long depending on the missions. The " Northern Run " attack boat missions are but one example.

The " grey " areas are pretty wide and things do happen. All of these things mentioned here come into play. Still, I think the crews on these subs are pretty well disciplined. To be honest, serving in this capacity can be an " iffy " proposition. The command and control structure can be an issue as well, if the commander themselves aren't fit to command. That's something you pointed out as well.

[mapuc]

A man a young man can very well live a year or so without sex. I would say they should act as grown-up.

It isn't exactly a heavily addicted drug we are talking about.

That's how I see it.

Markus

[ET2SN]

I DO know.

Just ponder this for a minute, imagine a situation where one guy uses another guy to frustrate a third guy. Its hard to imagine. If someone's giving us grief, we punch each other in the nose and move on. We also can become friends along the way. Its who we are.

Now, imagine the same situation only one or two of the people involved are female. Does that sound far fetched? Remember High School?


We might be a different breed but we aren't perfect.


Along those same lines, who are you going to order to run into a burning or flooding compartment? You don't have time to figure out the pluses and minuses.

Finally, let's wonder about submarine quals. EVERYone is supposed to get the same s####y deal. It not only builds character, it proves that the other folks who already went through it can trust you with their life. That's what quals REALLY mean, are you going to fold when the crap hits the fan?
We can't afford "title 19" because NONE of us get a statue for losing.

[Gorpet]

Originally Posted by Skybird

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63435129

Thats why I am strictly against women serving in certain branches of the military. Submarines amongst them. Crowded space. Isolated situation. Not good. Certain tensions between both genders are encoded in our biology, are controlled by chemical processes we have no conscious control over, and fuel some people's fantasy. Its simply no good idea to motivate for that by creating such extreme situations like you have on a submarine. And that is the difference to for example Islam's attempt to eradicate all signs of feminity from public life so that disinhibited slobbering males must not start to rape them: by hiding women under a small mobile circus tents and lock them away at home: here it is about locking half of mankind from general public life and access to all of it. The submarine example is an extremely specific, narrow, specialised context not being representative for much else than itself. Thats why banning female son subamriens fo rme is okay, while bannign them form oublic life and give them dress codes is not. I see no contradiction there.

I am also against women in combat infantry units - if they do not in full qualify in physical stress and strength tests according to standards used on males. But as Martin van Crevefeld once wrote in one of his books, statistical analysis - until it was banned by govenrments! - in I think the US, Canada, Israel, maybe Australia, i am not certain - showed that female personell in military jobs from infantry to technicians in hangars on aircraft carriers suffered 6 times as many injuries during their work on their stations, than their male collegues, and before Desert Storm and the 2003 war, female infantry suddenly saw a huge spike in pregnancy leaves. Well.

Ideology never beats biology. A thick bone is a thick bone and a thinner bone is a thinner bone, and psychology is different a little bit in both genders and ruled by - hormones, sorry, to say so, but hormones are the hidden dictator's we all obey, and far beyond just a reproductive context.

The female on the battle field is there for one purpose.And one purpose only .Save her at all cost. You may haven taken a shower with her 5 hrs.Before looked at the. And when she falls so do you.