Turkey shoots down Russian aircraft.

[Commander Wallace]

Turkey today has downed a Russian aircraft that was allegedly violating it's airspace. Turkey has said it issued 10 warnings to the aircraft thought to be a supersonic Sukhoi SU-24 attack aircraft. Turkey has said those 10 warnings were in a 5 minute span. Turkey has issued warnings before to Russian aircraft violating it's airspace and Russian officials are denying the aircraft violated Turkish airspace.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middle...turkey-border/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0TD0IR20151124

Quote : Turkey's semi-official Anadolu news agency quoted Turkish presidential sources in reporting that the Russian Su-24 was "hit within the framework of engagement rules" in Syria's Bayirbucak area, near the border with Turkey."This is a situation that unfortunately was almost inevitable at some point, because Turkey has long been accusing Russia of interfering in their airspace," Gohel said. "They've threatened them in the past. And even though economic relations between the two countries are strong -- politically, there have been tensions recently


Turkey, a member nation of NATO, is expected to meet later Tuesday with other members to discuss the incident.

[Betonov]

The Russians do have some bad navigation when it comes to airspaces...

But when it comes to Turkey I would root for the Russians if they send airplanes trough Erdogans bedroom daily.

[August]

[Catfish]

Maybe throw Turkey out of the NATO. Erdoghan is supporting IS anyway, and tries to kill as many Kurdish people as possible, masking it as action against IS terrorists. We will also not forget how turkish ground forces sat at the border, looking at a kurdish village some hunderd meters away, being pillaged and razed by the IS, and doing nothing.

Also Erdoghan tries to establish his "presidential state", nothing else than a one-man dictatorship.
By all appeasement towards Erdoghan, he does nothing to stop the IS.
Now Erdoghan accusing just of all Russia to kill "innocent kurdish people" is the peak of infamy.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Betonov

The Russians do have some bad navigation when it comes to airspaces...

But when it comes to Turkey I would root for the Russians if they send airplanes trough Erdogans bedroom daily.

Amen.

Originally Posted by Catfish

Maybe throw Turkey out of the NATO. Erdoghan is supporting IS anyway, and tries to kill as many Kurdish people as possible, masking it as action against IS terrorists. We will also not forget how turkish ground forces sat at the border, looking at a kurdish village some hunderd meters away, being pillaged and razed by the IS, and doing nothing.

Also Erdoghan tries to establish his "presidential state", nothing else than a one-man dictatorship.
By all appeasement towards Erdoghan, he does nothing to stop the IS.
Now Erdoghan accusing just of all Russia to kill "innocent kurdish people" is the peak of infamy.

What I can't understand is that Turkey is still a membership candidate for the EU.
And politicians wonder why people are fed up with them.

[ikalugin]

Statement by Putin (translated into eng).


If this Turkish data is correct, then it implies that Turkey had only a very narrow window of opportunity to engage the aircraft within it's airspace (below 30 seconds or so). Thus it is propable that even if RuASF aircraft did violate Turkish airspace it was outside of the Turkish airspace when it was hit.

[Dmitry Markov]

Turks say that they've made 10 warnings in 5 minutes via radio but our bomber didn't react... Taking into account amount of Turkish airspace that was supposedly crossed by Su-24 which took it less than a minute - doesn't that mean that they were ready and waiting and what's more - Wanting for our plane to cross the border for a moment. This far situation looks like a bomber was hit over Syrian territory. From our point of view (I mean our official position that Su-24 didn't cross Turkish border) this mess can be described as an ambush which purpose was a vengeance for destroying IS's oil structures. Actually that is what everybody here are saying.
What looks even more weird is that Turkey announsed NATO council immediately after this shooting. Just like a boy throwing a stone into neighbour's car runs to his daddy crying - " He did it first!"
My thoughts go to our pilots - there are controversial messages about what's happened to them.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Dmitry Markov

Turks say that they've made 10 warnings in 5 minutes via radio but our bomber didn't react... Taking into account amount of Turkish airspace that was supposedly crossed by Su-24 which took it less than a minute - doesn't that mean that they were ready and waiting and what's more - Wanting for our plane to cross the border for a moment. This far situation looks like a bomber was hit over Syrian territory. From our point of view (I mean our official position that Su-24 didn't cross Turkish border) this mess can be described as an ambush which purpose was a vengeance for destroying IS's oil structures. Actually that is what everybody here are saying.
What looks even more weird is that Turkey announsed NATO council immediately after this shooting. Just like a boy throwing a stone into neighbour's car runs to his daddy crying - " He did it first!"
My thoughts go to our pilots - there are controversial messages about what's happened to them.

The current unconfirmed reports are that one pilot was killed . If so, hopefully, the other crew member if not both are ok and receiving medical care if needed and will be returned in short order.

[Jimbuna]

I heard one report on UK where the Syrian rebels are claiming to have machine-gunned the pilots as they were descending to the ground in their parachutes.

What a mess....all the area needs right now

[moose1am]

I like coming in here to read what others have to say. We all get our news from different sources. I get my news from places like CNN or MSNBC news in the USA. But I find it very interesting reading what the other side has to say about this. I'm worried that misunderstanding might happen and this situation could escalate into some thing bigger.

I've never flown a Jet Fighter and have no idea how one can tell exactly where they are all all times and where certain boarders are or are not. So I don't know for a fact where the plane was when it was shot down.

I'd like to ask the guys from Russia in here about the following news that we have heard here in the USA. I've read in the last month or so after this mess in Syria began that Russian Planes had flown though Turkish Air Space in order to get to the Russian Airfields in Syria? Have you guys in Russia heard that too?

At least in this forum we can actually communicate with each other and not have to depend on what the news medias tell us. Not being there to see for myself I'm not sure who or what to believe anymore. I know that our media can be biased at times. I'm assuming that we are told what they want us to hear. Which is actually very little other than the propaganda we hear on our TVS and Radios. The internet can help change the way we get our news.

I'm sorry for the two Russian Pilots who were only doing what they were ordered to do by their commanders. We are always the pawns in these wars which are run by our upper classes.

[moose1am]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Statement by Putin (translated into eng).


If this Turkish data is correct, then it implies that Turkey had only a very narrow window of opportunity to engage the aircraft within it's airspace (below 30 seconds or so). Thus it is propable that even if RuASF aircraft did violate Turkish airspace it was outside of the Turkish airspace when it was hit.

Greetings ikalugin. We here in the USA this morning were told that the people fighting in this area where the Russian Jet was shot down were not ISIS fighters but the Anti ASAD fighters being supported by the USA and others in the West.

The problem with this conflict is that the USA supports the guys in Syria who want to topple President Assad in Syria and I'm told that Russia in there to support Assad and his people.

But that Russia and the USA and France and others in the West are all wanting to destroy the ISIS fighters.

I just hope that this conflict does not lead to more fighting. it's bad enough already.

We all need to take a few steps back and take a deep breath and hope that this situation in Syria and the entire Middle East calms down.

I've got to get ready to go to work now so I'll not be able to discuss this anymore right now. I don't get into this forum very often anymore. But I thought I would pop into this forum today and see what the other side of the world was saying about this situation in Syria. I pray that it deescalates soon.

[Rockstar]

Fark Turkey, I say ramp it up baby. Hope Russia sends them early christmas presents

[Betonov]

The anti-turk sentiment is getting dangerously close to uniting this forum on one issue.

Shame about the pilots
They weren't KIA, they were murdered.

[Eichhörnchen]

Brilliant thread title...

[ikalugin]

moose1am

Everyone in the region has their own little agenda in addition to fighting the more or less universally hated ISIS. In this particular case RuASF was conducting strikes against the anti-Assad and pro Turkey rebels, supported by Turkey with arms and if I remember it right instructors/advisors.

Recently there was a rumour that Turkey deployed ~5k special forces into that (Syrian) area to support rebel operations. At the same time Turkey has very strong anti Kurd interests (because Kurds want an independent state) and were allegedly supporting ISIS financially, view the oil trade.