Idea's for Mk28 torpedo mod

[joefremont]

I have been thinking about making a mod to add the Mark 28 torpedo and wanted some advice. The reason I wanted this is that the only other USN homing torpedo is the mk27 and have found it to be quite useless. On the historical accuracy side I feel including the Mk28 is ok since the game already includes the mk16 and in comparison, the mk28 was actually tested in combat where the mk16 never got that far.

I have been playing around with Silent 3ditor and am starting to get an idea how to proceed but have a few questions for the experts here.

1) Can I create a new torpedo type or do I have to cannibalize an existing one.

2) I have not found any tuning parameters for homing torpedoes other than the straight_run property in the Torpedo_US.sim file. If they do exist does anybody know where they are located?

If I do have to take over an existing torpedo type I figure the Mk23 is the best candidate since after examining the config files the only differences I can find is that the slow speed is missing and the warhead is slightly more powerful and is equal to the Mk18. Since the Mk14 and Mk23 are supposed to have the same warheads I figure if we increase the warhead on the mk14 to the same as the mk23, nobody will miss the mk23.

[joefremont]

From the lack of responses to this I am assuming there is not much interest in this.

My idea of taking over the Mk23 did not work because as far as I can tell the homing and wake characteristics are baked into the sh4.exe file and can't be modified without hacking it, which I am not going to do. However I did figure out how to use the german torpedo's on a US boat and have been working on modifying the T5 to perform like the Mk28. I choose the T5 because;

A) since it was the germans second homing torpedo to enter service and the mk28 was the americans second homing torpedo to enter service there homing performance should be similar. and

B) Since the T11 was an improved T5 as long as the T11 was made available the same time the T5 would have been available few would complain. Besides a user could always uninstall the Mk28 mod before running a U-Boat campaign.

So what I have done so far is to mod the T5 to have the same performance parameters as the Mk18 except for the lower speed of the Mk28 and to bump the straight run distance to 1000 yards (923m).

One thing I still need to figure out is how to replace the image/model of the german torpedo with the US torpedo as in the torpedo control room the german torpedo is shorter. This really does not effect anything but it would be good for completness.

But then again if nobody is interested and I am the only one who is going to use it there is not much point.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by joefremont

From the lack of responses to this I am assuming there is not much interest in this.

My idea of taking over the Mk27 did not work because as far as I can tell the homing and wake characteristics are baked into the sh4.exe file and can't be modified without hacking it, which I am not going to do. However I did figure out how to use the german torpedo's on a US boat and have been working on modifying the T5 to perform like the Mk28. I choose the T5 because;

A) since it was the germans second homing torpedo to enter service and the mk28 was the americans second homing torpedo to enter service there homing performance should be similar. and

B) Since the T11 was an improved T5 as long as the T11 was made available the same time the T5 would have been available few would complain. Besides a user could always uninstall the Mk28 mod before running a U-Boat campaign.

So what I have done so far is to mod the T5 to have the same performance parameters as the Mk18 except for the lower speed of the Mk28 and to bump the straight run distance to 1000 yards (923m).

One thing I still need to figure out is how to replace the image/model of the german torpedo with the US torpedo as in the torpedo control room the german torpedo is shorter. This really does not effect anything but it would be good for completness.

But then again if nobody is interested and I am the only one who is going to use it there is not much point.

I believe there is interest in this, sometimes there is interest but lack of response, interest is shown once its released. I look forward to seeing the end result, hopefully someone can help you with replacing the image/model as it could be a little bit of an immersion killer.Would definitely be nice to have better homing torpedo(since Mark 28 did see limited service) for use in late war, I find the cutie mostly useless, Mark 28 could be a real help.

[c13Garrison]

For what its worth I am very interested too, I just have nothing to offer except research, and itseems you've nailed down that already.

I would especially be interested in an overall "overhaul" torpedo mod that once and for all restores all torpedoes to their real world performance, as far as duds, pre-det, circles, depth of run, and especially yield. I have no concept of how burdensome such a project would be however.

Take a German torp and mod that. You can create new dats and such you know right?

Then you'd need to edit UPC files and such. I don't have SH4 installed so this is off the top of my head.

[Admiral Halsey]

Oh please make this mod. It would be really nice to have a homing torpedo for the US side that isn't worthless.

[joefremont]

Thanks for the encouragement. I have much of it worked out, but still have not figured out how to change the image in the torpedo management screen.

Right now the Mk27 is available 1 Jan 44 and the Mk16 is available 1 jan 45. Since the Mk28 was introduced between these I figure 1 July 44 would be a good date.

When doing a mod? Don't worry about what others think about it.
Just do it!

Doing it for yourself is the most important part anyway.
And don't be afraid to PM people that you think might be able to help.
We don't watch every thread so you might think We don't care.

Now what are you doing reading this when you should be modding!

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by c13Garrison

For what its worth I am very interested too, I just have nothing to offer except research, and itseems you've nailed down that already.

I would especially be interested in an overall "overhaul" torpedo mod that once and for all restores all torpedoes to their real world performance, as far as duds, pre-det, circles, depth of run, and especially yield. I have no concept of how burdensome such a project would be however.

I just released such a mod.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=206667&page=2

[c13Garrison]

Joe, I have a former torpedo person as an acquaintance, so I'm trying to nail down an in-the-field delivery date for you. That date has to be recorded somewhere. ..

[Rockin Robbins]

And hold it before you say worthless. In the game, I've sunk three escorts with Cuties. In the real war US homing torpedoes had kills and there were no kills for the German homing torpedo. Of course you know that luck plays into any results especially when we're talking small numbers like zero and a couple. The results don't necessarily reflect the quality of the torpedoes.

[TorpX]

I agree with RR. The Cutie had to be small and quiet. A large warhead torpedo would have made too much noise. However, it doesn't take that much high explosive to create a breach in a DD hull (or merchant hull, for that matter). It wasn't designed to sink the Yamato.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

And hold it before you say worthless. In the game, I've sunk three escorts with Cuties. In the real war US homing torpedoes had kills and there were no kills for the German homing torpedo. Of course you know that luck plays into any results especially when we're talking small numbers like zero and a couple. The results don't necessarily reflect the quality of the torpedoes.

I've managed a few kills, to disable a few DD's as well. Think Mark 28 would be nice since has more speed etc.

[Rockin Robbins]

You know, another strategy would be to modify the Cutie for more explosive power, speed and range. That would be a trivial thing, which I've already done in a slightly more ludicrous way in my Slightly Subnuclear Mark 14 and Cutie mod. Check out the Cutie there and you'll see something you can work with.

[c13Garrison]

Well, this was my attempt to determine the actual in-field delivery date for the Mk 28- and I hope I don't come across as stepping on toes Joe, it just struck me that there had to be a date available somewhere so I thought I'd try. To wit;


"Good afternoon,

I am working on a research project which incorporates some elements of Westinghouse' WWII production activities.

There was a torpedo that Westinghouse made called the Mk 28 Acoustic Homing Torpedo. It was developed through 1943 in part from the captured German Ge7 Torpedo, and went into service in limited numbers during 1944.

What I am looking for is an actual in-the-field delivery date for the Mk 28, ideally the date it was first loaded onto a submarine tender for potential distribution to active patrolling US submarines. My best guess is July, but I have scoured numerous sources and have not been able to find an actual printed date.

If there is someone at Westinghouse who has access to its historical records, and the interest to be so kind to look something like this up for someone, I would love to know when the first "batch" of Mk 28's were shipped from whatever factory built them. From this I could at least interpolate the field delivery date I need.

I fully understand if such a request is beyond the scope of your normal business operations, but I concluded that given I seem to have exhausted my options, it didn't hurt to simply ask.

My thanks for taking the time to review this query, and great thanks for any time that may be invested in its response.

Most sincerely,

GLC"


And, this was the response-

"During the 1980's and 1990's, Westinghouse Electric Corporation sold all its industrial businesses and focused on its media businesses. Through a series of transactions, Westinghouse became CBS Corporation, a media company.

CBS has no pictures, information, or products remaining from the historical Westinghouse businesses. Most of the Westinghouse Corporate historical records were given to the George Westinghouse Museum however the museum has closed and transferred all materials and artifacts to the Senator John Heinz Pittsburgh Regional History Center, 1212 Small Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15222;
phone: 412-454-6000; e-mail: hswp@hswp.org."


So. Does anybody live near Pittsburgh? I'm kind of thinking Joe's guess of July 1st is sounding just fine for the effort that the actual date will require to recover. lol