State of Iraq

Armistead · 02-10-11, 04:40 PM

How do you feel about Iraq now? I admit in the beginning I jumped on the bandwagon. The towers had fallen, Saddam had WMD's...let's blow the hell out of them.

Obvious, the propaganda machine of war was long at work in the Bush adm. No WMD's, never any evidence, a big lie. Saddam, well a bad guy, but ran a basic secular culture for the region, he posed no threat to us.

So, here we are still there.

Over 5 million displaced.
Around 150- 300,000 dead civilians estimated killed by US military.
Bout one million overall dead.
700 billion Dollars spent....(there went health care.)
4500 dead US servicemen
35,000 wounded.

Billions in no bid contract to private american companies. Over 50% of the project went 200% above cost, even though many were never completed.

Many think it would be a matter of a year after we left before chaos ensued. Even Obama's so called pull out isn't really a pull out, we'll leave manned military bases, forces, etc..

Most agree insurgents are and stockpiling explosives waiting to reignite the conflict once we leave. If so, do we go back and continue nation building...

Should we continue to stay no matter the cost?

Takeda Shingen · 02-10-11, 04:42 PM

We shouldn't have been there in the first place. So, no, I am not for staying the course in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

Skybird · 02-10-11, 04:51 PM

I did not had to change my position on Iraq by one inch since 2003, so when I was saying in 2003 and 2004 that it was a big mistake, was caused not by need but by opportunistic desire, that it was about lies and intentional deception of the public, and was both badly prepared and badly carried out, then I still say so today. In fact I feel confirmed in my warnings by everything that has happened since the invasion started.

A very stupid adventure, from A to Z. The blood costs are payed by the Iraqi civilians.

Dowly · 02-10-11, 05:02 PM

Never should've gone there.

Saddam was a bad guy, but he kept things pretty much under control. The war and death of Saddam opened the door for terrorists and chaos. Gonna take a looong time for Iraq to get over this (if it ever will).

02-10-11, 05:06 PM

All the coilition did was exactly what the Iranians wanted, and probably more than they could have dreamed of.

Armistead · 02-10-11, 05:16 PM

Seems the US can't learn that you can't replace cultures with war. It's impossible to change a mindset that's been around 1000 years with war, it can't be done.

Bush Sr knew better, his son didn't. He lied, he is a criminal and should be charged as one, but we can't do that, somehow it would dishonor the servicemen, so it's just a lie we all live with.

AVGWarhawk · 02-10-11, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

We shouldn't have been there in the first place. So, no, I am not for staying the course in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

Yep, should have pulled out years ago. Unfortunate we started the ball rolling. We need to clean up the mess. I have a friend who just came back for Iraq. He said it is a mess and will not survive for very long once the US troops are pulled.

Takeda Shingen · 02-10-11, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Yep, should have pulled out years ago. Unfortunate we started the ball rolling. We need to clean up the mess. I have a friend who just came back for Iraq. He said it is a mess and will not survive for very long once the US troops are pulled.

Not only that, but it becomes an exercise in futility. Each time we enable one of these nations to democratically liberalize in our western sense, the people of that nation end up voting in the very people we were trying to exclude from power. We're seeing it in motion in Egypt right now. Promoting democracy in the Middle East has really become a lost cause.

Ducimus · 02-10-11, 05:11 PM

Back when this all started, I supported it. I was just a year or two out of the military, NBC training was still fresh on my mind, and i almost re enlisted after sept 11. My grandfather begged me not to. Here was a WW 2 veteran who told me, "Don't re up. you've already done your fair share". Considering i was afraid, (because I knew the hardships I would face - again), i took his advice. Besides that, my desire to reenlist was more out of a sense of guilt for not being with my comrades who were still in, as the excrement was hitting the fan. Every bone in my body was ashamed for not being with them, but i knew the odds of re upping, and getting back to the same unit with those people were next to nill.

But there it was, Saddam was supposed to have NBC, and General Powell (the only politician i ever respected in recent time) , gave his anthrax speech to congress. I was sold on it.

When the dust has settled, and all the reasons to go were simply not there, i felt lied to, and betrayed (again). Now its my thought and fear that Iraq coupled with Afganistan, will eventually prove to be the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back. Much as Afganistan overtaxed the soviet union and lead to it's collapse. It won't happen right away, this is a long term reprocussion.

02-10-11, 04:40 PM	#1
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	State of Iraq How do you feel about Iraq now? I admit in the beginning I jumped on the bandwagon. The towers had fallen, Saddam had WMD's...let's blow the hell out of them. Obvious, the propaganda machine of war was long at work in the Bush adm. No WMD's, never any evidence, a big lie. Saddam, well a bad guy, but ran a basic secular culture for the region, he posed no threat to us. So, here we are still there. Over 5 million displaced. Around 150- 300,000 dead civilians estimated killed by US military. Bout one million overall dead. 700 billion Dollars spent....(there went health care.) 4500 dead US servicemen 35,000 wounded. Billions in no bid contract to private american companies. Over 50% of the project went 200% above cost, even though many were never completed. Many think it would be a matter of a year after we left before chaos ensued. Even Obama's so called pull out isn't really a pull out, we'll leave manned military bases, forces, etc.. Most agree insurgents are and stockpiling explosives waiting to reignite the conflict once we leave. If so, do we go back and continue nation building... Should we continue to stay no matter the cost?

02-10-11, 04:51 PM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,612 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I did not had to change my position on Iraq by one inch since 2003, so when I was saying in 2003 and 2004 that it was a big mistake, was caused not by need but by opportunistic desire, that it was about lies and intentional deception of the public, and was both badly prepared and badly carried out, then I still say so today. In fact I feel confirmed in my warnings by everything that has happened since the invasion started. A very stupid adventure, from A to Z. The blood costs are payed by the Iraqi civilians. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

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02-10-11, 04:42 PM	#2
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	We shouldn't have been there in the first place. So, no, I am not for staying the course in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

02-10-11, 05:02 PM	#4
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,052 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Never should've gone there. Saddam was a bad guy, but he kept things pretty much under control. The war and death of Saddam opened the door for terrorists and chaos. Gonna take a looong time for Iraq to get over this (if it ever will).

02-10-11, 05:06 PM	#5
Tribesman Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	All the coilition did was exactly what the Iranians wanted, and probably more than they could have dreamed of.

02-10-11, 05:16 PM	#6
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Seems the US can't learn that you can't replace cultures with war. It's impossible to change a mindset that's been around 1000 years with war, it can't be done. Bush Sr knew better, his son didn't. He lied, he is a criminal and should be charged as one, but we can't do that, somehow it would dishonor the servicemen, so it's just a lie we all live with.

02-10-11, 05:11 PM	#9
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Back when this all started, I supported it. I was just a year or two out of the military, NBC training was still fresh on my mind, and i almost re enlisted after sept 11. My grandfather begged me not to. Here was a WW 2 veteran who told me, "Don't re up. you've already done your fair share". Considering i was afraid, (because I knew the hardships I would face - again), i took his advice. Besides that, my desire to reenlist was more out of a sense of guilt for not being with my comrades who were still in, as the excrement was hitting the fan. Every bone in my body was ashamed for not being with them, but i knew the odds of re upping, and getting back to the same unit with those people were next to nill. But there it was, Saddam was supposed to have NBC, and General Powell (the only politician i ever respected in recent time) , gave his anthrax speech to congress. I was sold on it. When the dust has settled, and all the reasons to go were simply not there, i felt lied to, and betrayed (again). Now its my thought and fear that Iraq coupled with Afganistan, will eventually prove to be the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back. Much as Afganistan overtaxed the soviet union and lead to it's collapse. It won't happen right away, this is a long term reprocussion.