What were they thinking

[bigboywooly]

Wasnt happy with the grey colour on bases for neutral countries so went back to green
Then dropped in a defside cfg from SH3

And spotted something odd
Note the French bases



As they are under Ge control should be blue
So took a look into the SH5 defside cfg

[SideEntry 33]
Country=France
Side=0 < Neutral
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19390902

[SideEntry 34]
Country=France
Side=1 < Allied
StartDate=19390903
EndDate=19400625

[SideEntry 35]
Country=France
Side=2 < AXIS
StartDate=19400626
EndDate=19440825

[SideEntry 36]
Country=France
Side=1 < Allied
StartDate=19440826
EndDate=19451231

[SideEntry 38]
Country=Norway
Side=0 < Neutral
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19400408

[SideEntry 39]
Country=Norway
Side=2 < AXIS
StartDate=19400409
EndDate=19451231

[SideEntry 57]
Country=Denmark
Side=0 < Neutral
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19400408

[SideEntry 58]
Country=Denmark
Side=2 < AXIS
StartDate=19400409
EndDate=1945082

This is despite those bases supposedly beiing overwritten by the Historical bases mis

So the Danes,Norwegians and French as part of the axis eh

Oh and lets not forget the Poles

[SideEntry 29]
Country=Poland
Side=1
StartDate=19390902
EndDate=19391001

[SideEntry 30]
Country=Poland
Side=2 < AXIS
StartDate=19391002
EndDate=19451231

A rewrite is in order methinks

[Lord Justice]

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

So the Danes,Norwegians and French as part of the axis





A rewrite is in order methinks

Not at all!! after all they did have above manpower drawn from those countries, Nordland, charlemagne, danmark, etc waffen ss regiments.

[The General]

I'm operating on the assumption that tomorrow's Patch will be the last.

It's likely this was missed by The Devs for Patch 1.2 isn't it? If they missed this, what else?

[bigboywooly]

I doubt many French will concur they were part of the Axis as France WAS neutral after capitulation
Despite being occupied
Yes the game has always had FreeFrench as was the case in RL

The issue with making Norway etc part of the axis is that it wasnt
Occupied yes
Allied no
Aside from those who joined GE units the rest of the country was far from happy about being occupied and showed it
Norway had a huge WW2 merc fleet which sailed with the allies

As the game stands now you will never get to see a Polish,Norwegian or Danish ship sailing in any convoy
And while its possible to create a FreeNorway still means a rewrite

I seem to recall a similar convo in the SH3 forums
Will try to find that but IIRC most of the above named nations would deffo NOT consider themselves part of the axis

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

I seem to recall a similar convo in the SH3 forums
Will try to find that but IIRC most of the above named nations would deffo NOT consider themselves part of the axis

Hi!

There were several. Here is one of them: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ccupied+greece.

IIRC Beery ran into a wall of flak when he included Greece as an "Axis" country in RUb and reverted them back to members of the Allies.

Pablo

[Jan Kyster]

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

As the game stands now you will never get to see a Polish,Norwegian or Danish ship sailing in any convoy...

Those ships (typical) sailed under the british flag. Some danish ships went to the states and sailed under the Star Sprangled Banner...

If wanted, I can compile a complete list of which danish ships went under which foreign flags in WW2.
But be prepared for some waiting time then - there were hundreds...

You will not find a WW2 convoy with ships flying danish or norwegian flags

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by Jan Kyster

Those ships (typical) sailed under the british flag. Some danish ships went to the states and sailed under the Star Sprangled Banner...

If wanted, I can compile a complete list of which danish ships went under which foreign flags in WW2.
But be prepared for some waiting time then - there were hundreds...

You will not find a WW2 convoy with ships flying danish or norwegian flags

Interesting

True the Danish fleet was requesitioned on the day of invasion and placed under British flag
Not so Norways fleet - a large part already chartered to the British in Sept 39 to bring oil etc into GB
AFAIK Nortraship - the organisation set up in London to run Norways huge fleet after the invasion and the largest shipping company in the world - had control of the ships
They were certainly hired by the MOWT but sailed under Norwegian flags

At the outbreak of the war, Norway had the fourth largest merchant fleet in the world (after the UK, USA and Japan). In late April 1940 the Allies demanded that the fleet (most of it outside Norwegian waters and so not controlled by Germany) be transferred to Allied flag. The Norwegian government, still in Norway, resisted this, but took over the right to manage and use all vessels so that they could be used to secure supplies and advance the war operations of Norway and the Allied powers (40% of the fleet was sailing for the allies already, under an agreement from September 1939). Norwegian vessels sailed mostly in trans-Atlantic convoys during the war, under Norwegian flag. Most of the Norwegian merchant fleet was under the control of the government based in London. Those ships remaining in Norway probably just sailed in coastal waters. A ship under Norwegian flag anywhere else in the world would be considered an Allied ship. If it hadn't, using false colours would not succeed.

http://www.allstates-flag.com//fotw/flags/no-ww2.html

Besides
Having Norway as Axis means you cannot have any Norwegian navy ships on the allied side
Such as the 5 Town class or 2 S class DDs
Not to mention the 2 U class submarines HNoMS Ula and HNoMS Uredd which are actually in the game in Norways roster and so your ally

[LIONPRIDE]

.

Careful ...

I pulled into Rotterdam last night thinking I'd be OK and got lit-up ! Not a very warm welcome from a neutral port.

Worst part, Axis ships that were there never helped me out. I was able to take two ships out before I high-tailed it out of there. A tanker and what looked like a passenger ship.

.

[Carotio]

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

So the Danes,Norwegians and French as part of the axis eh

Oh and lets not forget the Poles

A rewrite is in order methinks

Why? Shouldn't you make a difference between the occupied countries and the free? Maybe this was made as to not make the axis units attack the occupied units...
So if something should be changed then it is to add a free version too. AFAIK there has always been a Free French force in all SH versions, but not for the other mentioned countries even though ships from those countries at sea while the countries were occupied joined forces with the allies.
So it ain't so strange...