Dealing with the zig zag.

surf_ten · 05-14-08, 10:38 AM

Hello fellow Kaleuns,

I have a quick question concerning ships that start to zig zag. Nothing is more annoying to me that those small/coastal merchant ships that don't sink after eating a torpedo. They start that zig zag defense and when they do my follow up shots will always miss by a couple of meters.

One thing I have observed is they get this hyper sense of awareness of my sub. Despite being submerge around 18 meters down and with my periscope retracted the merchants always seem to have turn their stern always towards me. I have confirmed this behavior using the external view. Makes it really difficult trying to place my sub in a path that is somewhat perpendicular to their position. The only thing I can guess is they have hydophones and can hear me maneuvering my sub.

Any veteran Kaleuns have a strategy or advice to sink those pesky zig zagers, without using the deck gun? I gave up trying to sink a small merchant last night after wasting 4 torpedoes in the attempt, such a waste potential firepower on such a small amount of tonnage. My current sub does not have a deck gun ( it's mid 43 and every Merchant is armed ).

predavolk · 05-14-08, 10:59 AM

1- I too have noticed their tendency to steer away from you. I can only surmise that they're steering away from the datum point from whence you fired the torpedo. They will most certainly maneuver their boat to get the best cannon fire on you, which I always find odd (dueling with a U-Boat doesn't seem that healthy of an idea).

2- You can sink them on the surface if you bring your boat up in a spot they can't reach with their guns. That's usually directly in front and/or directly in back of their boat. They can't shoot through their own ship!

3- When ships start to zig, it's really hard to nail them. Especially smaller, fast-moving ships. Your best bet at hitting them (IMO) is to slightly anticipate their turn by overestimating the AoB towards the direction they're turning.

4- Finally, don't waste 4 torpedoes on these boats. I did that a couple of times before giving up. I would suggest that you instead back off, let them calm down (they do often stop their zig-zagging with time), then put another torpedo into them! If you can't do that, you're wasting your torps. Follow them and hope that they sink with time.

5- Really finally, bow shots tend to be the best at sinking ships. Rare other shots may have more destructive impacts, but hitting the bow is perhaps the best way to sink a ship. Try aiming for it if you can, and maybe you can avoid the need for a second torp altogether!

Hanomag · 05-14-08, 11:25 AM

1st.. Welcome Aboard Herr Kaluen!!

If I have a wounded merchant usually I hit F5 and follow him around on the map til I can line up a perfect shot.

I dont really see the need to have your periscope retracted when dealing with a crippled merchant. If for some reason they fire upon you submerged just lower your periscope in small incriments 'til they lose sight of you. Or drop it all together and just pop it up again after a little while.

As a rule, I don't waste my eels on anything less than 5k tons. Not very realistic I'm sure but I'd rather sink an Ore Carrier than a Tramp Steamer any day. Not to mention, If I hit a larger merhcant with 2 eels he is apt to not linger as long as a smaller ship with but one hit. At least IMHO.

Hope this helps a little bit. You will find that each Kaluen here has there own skew on game play but in the end our goals are all the same.

GOOD LUCK HERR KALUEN!!

Brag · 05-14-08, 12:27 PM

I seldom mess with the little ones. Welcome aboard, Surf Ten.

Keelbuster · 05-14-08, 12:47 PM

When they start to zig, they slow down from their initial speed by about half a knot. Adjust your firing solution accordingly, and go for magnetic keel shots so you don't have to worry about deflection off their hulls.

surf_ten · 05-14-08, 01:59 PM

Thank you for the warm welcome!

I haven't played with the acoustic torpedoes but I would imagine they might be the solution, especially for the stern attacks. I tend to agree with most that the small merchants are not cost effective to justify the ordnance. I kick myself for not getting a deck gun.

Would a historical Kaleun risk their subs hull integrity and get into a firefight duel with an armed merchant?

05-14-08, 10:38 AM	#1
surf_ten Loader Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 90 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Dealing with the zig zag. Hello fellow Kaleuns, I have a quick question concerning ships that start to zig zag. Nothing is more annoying to me that those small/coastal merchant ships that don't sink after eating a torpedo. They start that zig zag defense and when they do my follow up shots will always miss by a couple of meters. One thing I have observed is they get this hyper sense of awareness of my sub. Despite being submerge around 18 meters down and with my periscope retracted the merchants always seem to have turn their stern always towards me. I have confirmed this behavior using the external view. Makes it really difficult trying to place my sub in a path that is somewhat perpendicular to their position. The only thing I can guess is they have hydophones and can hear me maneuvering my sub. Any veteran Kaleuns have a strategy or advice to sink those pesky zig zagers, without using the deck gun? I gave up trying to sink a small merchant last night after wasting 4 torpedoes in the attempt, such a waste potential firepower on such a small amount of tonnage. My current sub does not have a deck gun ( it's mid 43 and every Merchant is armed ).

05-14-08, 11:25 AM	#3
Hanomag Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: LI NY Posts: 964 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	1st.. Welcome Aboard Herr Kaluen!! If I have a wounded merchant usually I hit F5 and follow him around on the map til I can line up a perfect shot. I dont really see the need to have your periscope retracted when dealing with a crippled merchant. If for some reason they fire upon you submerged just lower your periscope in small incriments 'til they lose sight of you. Or drop it all together and just pop it up again after a little while. As a rule, I don't waste my eels on anything less than 5k tons. Not very realistic I'm sure but I'd rather sink an Ore Carrier than a Tramp Steamer any day. Not to mention, If I hit a larger merhcant with 2 eels he is apt to not linger as long as a smaller ship with but one hit. At least IMHO. Hope this helps a little bit. You will find that each Kaluen here has there own skew on game play but in the end our goals are all the same. GOOD LUCK HERR KALUEN!! __________________ "Only if I can save first..."

05-14-08, 12:27 PM	#4
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I seldom mess with the little ones. Welcome aboard, Surf Ten. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

05-14-08, 12:47 PM	#5
Keelbuster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: BA 72 Posts: 1,092 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	When they start to zig, they slow down from their initial speed by about half a knot. Adjust your firing solution accordingly, and go for magnetic keel shots so you don't have to worry about deflection off their hulls. __________________

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05-14-08, 10:59 AM	#2
predavolk Weps Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 369 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	1- I too have noticed their tendency to steer away from you. I can only surmise that they're steering away from the datum point from whence you fired the torpedo. They will most certainly maneuver their boat to get the best cannon fire on you, which I always find odd (dueling with a U-Boat doesn't seem that healthy of an idea). 2- You can sink them on the surface if you bring your boat up in a spot they can't reach with their guns. That's usually directly in front and/or directly in back of their boat. They can't shoot through their own ship! 3- When ships start to zig, it's really hard to nail them. Especially smaller, fast-moving ships. Your best bet at hitting them (IMO) is to slightly anticipate their turn by overestimating the AoB towards the direction they're turning. 4- Finally, don't waste 4 torpedoes on these boats. I did that a couple of times before giving up. I would suggest that you instead back off, let them calm down (they do often stop their zig-zagging with time), then put another torpedo into them! If you can't do that, you're wasting your torps. Follow them and hope that they sink with time. 5- Really finally, bow shots tend to be the best at sinking ships. Rare other shots may have more destructive impacts, but hitting the bow is perhaps the best way to sink a ship. Try aiming for it if you can, and maybe you can avoid the need for a second torp altogether!

05-14-08, 01:59 PM	#6
surf_ten Loader Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 90 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Thank you for the warm welcome! I haven't played with the acoustic torpedoes but I would imagine they might be the solution, especially for the stern attacks. I tend to agree with most that the small merchants are not cost effective to justify the ordnance. I kick myself for not getting a deck gun. Would a historical Kaleun risk their subs hull integrity and get into a firefight duel with an armed merchant?