resting on the bottom

[Iron Budokan]

Does sitting it out on the bottom while DDs look for you work in SH3? And does it work in GWX? Thanks!

[melnibonian]

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

Does sitting it out on the bottom while DDs look for you work in SH3? And does it work in GWX? Thanks!

I don't think it does work in SH3/GWX. If I remember correctly you get damaged if you hit the bottom and it doesn't give you any extra protection from DDs

[its a viic]

If you want to try reaching the bottom , make sure you hit softly or yes you will damage your boat. I wouldnt try resting in anything over 200' . I tried resting on the bottom... well I was forced to after my bow was half full of water. When they ping you they know your depth and the charges land on the ocean floor. Watched it happen with external camera... pretty cool. I am not currentlty using gwx. I am currently in 7/42 with some good mods. Just lost my flak gunners to some nasty Sunderlands. Dont use gwx yet cause I do like shooting down the planes, although this time it didnt work out very well.

[Brag]

Reaching bottom saved me from a crush in stock SHIII. Was attacked by DDs. Severe damage, flooding, sinking. Put engines astern before hitting bottom and let boat touch gently. DDs kept pounding for some time then left. Fixed leaks, blew ballast to surface. Stayed surfaced 'til reaching Wilhelshaven.

[mookiemookie]

Nope, it sure doesn't. I know this from the experiences of the U-103, lost with all hands about 3 weeks ago in my previous GWX career. I got absolutely pounded by the DDs after they pinged the heck outta me, even though I was resting on the seafloor.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

Does sitting it out on the bottom while DDs look for you work in SH3? And does it work in GWX? Thanks!

No.

Infact if you get in that position, you may as well bend over and kiss your butt bye bye.

[Iron Budokan]

So why isn't this modeled? I've read lots of accounts of sub skippers sitting it out on the bottom. Okay, it doesn't always work, I understand that. I don't want a cheat. But I'm curious as to why this isn't modeled since so many here say it doesn't work....

Or is it historically modeled but it didn't really work out all that well for the kaleuns of old, either?

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

So why isn't this modeled?

It's because of how sensors work in SH3.

Seems to me the sensors are based on MAD, which was a late war detection device.
Magnetic anomoly detector. Very widely used today.
I was concerned about adding it to the K-Ships, late war but it's already there it seems.

[Torpex752]

In the real ocean enviroment, even modern active sonar only has a 10% chance of detecting a sunken ship/sub sitting on the bottom. I would bet that from 39-45 its chance of detecting a sub on the bottom was almost zero. From everything I've ever read about US and German subs sitting on the bottom the largest success was when the DD's didnt know the sub was there in the first place. From what I read they were almost never detected. Its different when the sub was detected in a "certain area" and suddenly disappears, the DD's are figuring that the sub is down there somewhere sitting on the bottom so they (I would too) carpet the bottom to see if they get a lucky kill. So sitting on the bottom becomes a disaster because you are a sitting duck especially in this sim where sitting on the bottom you dont disappear as you should. I know that some will think that active sonar will be able to see a sub sitting on the bottom, and I am sure that there are certain rare instances where it could. However I base my comments on having lenngthy discussions with todays Sonar techs (my shipmates) regarding the possibility vs probability of this tactic working. We also have had excercises where there were known ship wrecks and they did not present themselves when pinged with active sonar. In some cases i thought that due to our depth and the angle the active was transmitted that it would show the wrecks sort of like a side search sonar, but was enlightened that that type of sonar that could see such detail was not operating on the same or even similar frequency as warship active sonar. So in closing I wish they did model it, and really hope SHIV does.

Frank

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

Does sitting it out on the bottom while DDs look for you work in SH3? And does it work in GWX? Thanks!

NOPE!! MOST DEFINITELY NOT

Infact if you get in that position, you may as well bend over and kiss your butt bye bye.

:rotfl: :rotfl: PRECISELY

[Mooncatt]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

NOPE!! MOST DEFINITELY NOT

:rotfl: :rotfl: PRECISELY

yup i tried this once. didnt go well

[WOD]

Originally Posted by Torpex752

In the real ocean enviroment, even modern active sonar only has a 10% chance of detecting a sunken ship/sub sitting on the bottom. I would bet that from 39-45 its chance of detecting a sub on the bottom was almost zero. From everything I've ever read about US and German subs sitting on the bottom the largest success was when the DD's didnt know the sub was there in the first place. From what I read they were almost never detected. Its different when the sub was detected in a "certain area" and suddenly disappears, the DD's are figuring that the sub is down there somewhere sitting on the bottom so they (I would too) carpet the bottom to see if they get a lucky kill. So sitting on the bottom becomes a disaster because you are a sitting duck especially in this sim where sitting on the bottom you dont disappear as you should. I know that some will think that active sonar will be able to see a sub sitting on the bottom, and I am sure that there are certain rare instances where it could. However I base my comments on having lenngthy discussions with todays Sonar techs (my shipmates) regarding the possibility vs probability of this tactic working. We also have had excercises where there were known ship wrecks and they did not present themselves when pinged with active sonar. In some cases i thought that due to our depth and the angle the active was transmitted that it would show the wrecks sort of like a side search sonar, but was enlightened that that type of sonar that could see such detail was not operating on the same or even similar frequency as warship active sonar. So in closing I wish they did model it, and really hope SHIV does.

Frank

I think if it would be modeled in SHIV then the intelligence of the DDs has to be a lot better....for example stop engines and waiting til the sub would come up from the bottom....cause if it wouldn´t be so then evading would be a lot to easy.

Best example of this was in the movie "The enemy below" (in German: Duell im Atlantik), which is still one of the best UBoat movies although the movie is already very old.

[melnibonian]

Originally Posted by mooncatt

yup i tried this once. didnt go well

Me too. It went horrible wrong. Couldn't reach my butt, but the depth charges could reach me:p :rotfl:

[gonzosts]

Since it is not part of the sim, no matter what science there is, your still SOL.
As far as how sonar works (at least in todays Navy) active sonar sends out a sound wave that bounces off solid objects. The return is what is messured by the sonar equipment. For a sub resiting on the bottom to show up depends on the bottom type. With a bottom of hard sand or rock a sub will be hidden as the return echo will be the same for the entire return unless the distance is short enough ( in case of shallow water) that the sub is higher than anything on the bottom. In the case of a sandy or muddy bottom, the transmitted sound wave will be absorbed into the bottom except where the sub is and the sonar equipment will show a return off the sub so a sub sitting in this type of environment is F*#Ked. With the use of side scan sonar used today on some platforms, no matter where you try to hide, the complete profile if the sub is outlined and it will even show which way you are going.

The only way to save your self (in the sim or in real life) is to stay out of the active sonar's cone....