What happened to this forum?

[SimNut]

I sure liked the old modders forum better. People shared ideas and helped each other. Everyone got to be a part of it.

Now people announce "wow OUR latest feature" and spam forums for weeks before a release with each and every feature like it's some scientific discovery only to be shared with superpowers, lest the little people or other team find out the truth.

Hopefully when these guys are done hosing each other down with virtual testosterone, the old modders forum will return.

The one where it was actually a forum, a community, and not a continual pissing contest. Go out in the hall, unzip your flys and get it over with. Whoever has the longest mod wins.

For all you've done, you've also done just as much damage splitting the camps and making everything a petty little secret. Give it some thought. The sharing of ideas has been stifled by this BS long enough.

After SH4 are you going down the same path? There will only be 2 mods and a boatload of secrets that the "community" can't/won't share because of two bruised egos?

Children in my house get punished for acting like this.

[terrapin]

While seeing the (really only slightly...) splitted community, I must admit that the 'scheme of events' is all but new to me (or anyone involved in the electronic gaming scene).

First there's a good game, then there are a few (free) mods, then a lot of them, then someone steps in making a mod pack, which is refined over time. Modpack A alerts someone other to do Modpack B - and because it's inherent in the common routings of human feelings NOT to accept parallelity and versatility, someone other starts the dissing...Ah...I forgot the 'bad guys' stepping in, stealing all previously free work of others and selling it.

I've seen this the last time before SH3 with Falcon 4, I've learned a lot. Nothing to really worry about. Iit's just about history repeating itself - and about humans being...humans;)

[Ducimus]

While seeing the (really only slightly...) splitted community,

More goes on unseen. Neals pretty good at keeping a lid on the real drama.

[terrapin]

Me too;) ...as I said: Nothing to really worry about.

[Ducimus]

Heh, well id be lying if i said i wasnt holding a grudge myself. The factional split is very keen on my mind, and i honestly didnt take sides in it tell some event past drove me over the edge and i joined the GW team for awhile as a result out of shear anger. Took a long break cause RL demanded more of my time, came back to SH3 and resigned from the team. I want to focus on just improving my own game while im intrested in it again for a limited time.

It's funny though, even taking a break, i still harbor ill feelings. It's like this festering wound that will never heal. I could be mistaken but im sure theres a few others with similar feelings. For the most part folks are good at keeping their gripes to themselves. But you will see subtle digs or snide remarks crop up now and then in miscs posts. Subtley was never one of my strongpoints on subsim. I can honestly say thoguh, that the griping in private forums (at least whilst i was active in them) was unbridled, uncensored, full of angst, and oddly theraputic :D .

But to sum, it's bad enough i stir the pot occasionally, i'd rather others didn't jump on the bandwagon. Things are what they are, and they'll never change. May as well just accept it, but it doesnt mean you have to like it. I know personnaly ill never let go of this grudge until something specific happens, but i know it never will. Thesedays im content to play in my own modding sandbox, fixing my own game.

[Immacolata]

People just worry to damn much. Most of it is started by hide-behind-your-momma's-skirts fanboys who think its okay to take potshots at the "enemy" and before you know it, the modders supposedly are at war and will go for the jugular at first opportunity. To the mod'ers great surprise as well.

I've been a mod drama queen too in my younger days. It just ain't worth it. Take the mods, play them, give your vocal or monetary support for the developer and refrain from fanboyism.

Ducimus, I am sure whatever grudge you hold is probably about hurt pride, about taking things one step too serious and then you can't back down. It is a matter of hobby pixels and spare time. Not worth getting worked up over to that extent.

[Ducimus]

Well, i dunno. Alot's ticked me off, but if i was to boil the fat away - My grudge is primary about chastizing my work, downplaying it like i was smoking crack when i did it, and then turning around and using the results of my work in a well known and published mod. I dont think i got any credit for said work, not even so much as an apology. Then using some more of my work, and again, not one peep about who did the original mod, and again no apology. Mix in a total lack of humilty and a good dash of snootiness from the offending person, and it makes for a pretty good grudge.

Anyway, i talk to much, im shutting up now. Captain Morgan and coke has a tendency of loosening my lips. I;ll probalby regret writing the above in the morning, but oh well, there is one thing i am not, and its a liar. I never lie, and i wont compromise my principles.

[LGN1]

I must confess I am also a little bit disappointed. I have played and I still play many of the 'super mods' and I enjoy them. However, none really fits my taste completely. Thus, I mod them by myself. In fact, I like to mod things and understand how things are done. But this gets harder and harder since people here often do not really state how they have done something but just 'Here is the mod, it does this and that', use it like it is or leave it.

I know many have spent much effort in creating mods and finding things out and thus want to be 'honored' accordingly (just a normal human thing) but I don't really understand why people do not want to share their knowledge. This does not really fit in my understanding of a community.

@ Ducimus: Probably you have good reasons to be really angry but for me it is a little bit strange that you point out that there is an error in their mod which may result in a CTD but do not explain where. If you don't want to help them then just say nothing, but saying there is a bug without correcting it is a little bit odd. Just for the normal users it would be nice if you could 'jump over your shadow' and help. Sorry, I don't want to and I don't have the right to criticize you, but these are just my thoughts.

Anyway, I hope people will become a little bit more cooperative again and the mod forum will be more again than a 'mod presentation forum'.

Cheers, LGN1

[Ducimus]

I must confess I am also a little bit disappointed. I have played and I still play many of the 'super mods' and I enjoy them. However, none really fits my taste completely. Thus, I mod them by myself. In fact, I like to mod things and understand how things are done.

You sir, are my twin.


But this gets harder and harder since people here often do not really state how they have done something but just 'Here is the mod, it does this and that', use it like it is or leave it.
I know many have spent much effort in creating mods and finding things out and thus want to be 'honored' accordingly (just a normal human thing) but I don't really understand why people do not want to share their knowledge. This does not really fit in my understanding of a community.


If this is rampant, its because the two supermods are competing. They're trying to out do each other, there not going to post info on how they did stuff (at least the newer stuff) because they dont want the other guy ripping them off and taking the credit.



@ Ducimus: Probably you have good reasons to be really angry but for me it is a little bit strange that you point out that there is an error in their mod which may result in a CTD but do not explain where. If you don't want to help them then just say nothing, but saying there is a bug without correcting it is a little bit odd.

Ill be honest, it was a blantant dig at DTB to piss him off. He touts his stuff as well and throughly tested, and has had the cahonies to insinuate others don't test anything near as well as he does. So yeah i found a way to make SH3 CTD while using NYGM2.2. The fun was in pointing that out, he can find and fix it himself, im not helping him.

[Tuddley3]

If no one cared to share their talents as modders, we would all still be playing STOCK SH3. We would have played it for 2-3 months, then tossed it out the window. But, now it just gets better and better. If you don't like it, don't visit here or Ubi, and make your own mod.

[VonHelsching]

I sure liked the old modders forum better. People shared ideas and helped each other. Everyone got to be a part of it.

Now people announce "wow OUR latest feature" and spam forums for weeks before a release with each and every feature like it's some scientific discovery only to be shared with superpowers, lest the little people or other team find out the truth.

Hopefully when these guys are done hosing each other down with virtual testosterone, the old modders forum will return.

The one where it was actually a forum, a community, and not a continual pissing contest. Go out in the hall, unzip your flys and get it over with. Whoever has the longest mod wins.

For all you've done, you've also done just as much damage splitting the camps and making everything a petty little secret. Give it some thought. The sharing of ideas has been stifled by this BS long enough.

After SH4 are you going down the same path? There will only be 2 mods and a boatload of secrets that the "community" can't/won't share because of two bruised egos?

Children in my house get punished for acting like this.

Patronising post, IMHO. Caveat lector.

I prefer the current competitive situation (which is a result of idividual behaviors) than a loose community of modders with no integration and with endless compatibility problems; a recipy of low productivity.

The result for the end player and the sales of the game itself (which ensures the continuity - next versions, games -) is IMHO better.

The collateral damage to this situation is some excellent individual modders that their end product does not make it in the big modpacks on time, or their ideas / development are not brainstormed / refined enough.

[Boris]

I sure liked the old modders forum better. People shared ideas and helped each other. Everyone got to be a part of it.

Now people announce "wow OUR latest feature" and spam forums for weeks before a release with each and every feature like it's some scientific discovery only to be shared with superpowers, lest the little people or other team find out the truth.

Hopefully when these guys are done hosing each other down with virtual testosterone, the old modders forum will return.

The one where it was actually a forum, a community, and not a continual pissing contest. Go out in the hall, unzip your flys and get it over with. Whoever has the longest mod wins.

For all you've done, you've also done just as much damage splitting the camps and making everything a petty little secret. Give it some thought. The sharing of ideas has been stifled by this BS long enough.

After SH4 are you going down the same path? There will only be 2 mods and a boatload of secrets that the "community" can't/won't share because of two bruised egos?

Children in my house get punished for acting like this.

Mate, if you knew about the saga of events that lead up to current situation you'd probably understand. I'm not going to recount events and open old wounds though, most of my knowledge on this subject is second and third hand.
The current situation really isn't that bad, you'll find that the modders within their teams are more focussed than ever before and are producing better work than ever. The sense of community that used to exist was broken by people that contradicted this sense of community.
It's no use seeing todays situation as negative, things are going well as far as SH3 mods are concerned.

[Deimos01]

Threads like this only help to exacerbate the situation by re-opening old cans of worms. We got a great community and like all communities there is friction from time to time. No big deal and some great things are comming out of it.

[Boris]

Threads like this only help to exacerbate the situation by re-opening old cans of worms. We got a great community and like all communities there is friction from time to time. No big deal and some great things are comming out of it.

Yep, agreed :up:

[Stiebler]

Dulcimus said:
So yeah i found a way to make SH3 CTD while using NYGM2.2. The fun was in pointing that out, he can find and fix it himself, im not helping him.
What you actually said originally was that "it didn't take me but 5 minutes of examination" (to find the CTD):
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=316875&postcount=104

Has anyone else experienced a CTD (not part of the stock game, such as the well-known dragging over Russian cities CTD) within five minutes of examination?

I suspect not.

Stiebler.

[Ducimus]

I alslo said it was a minor bug, therego It's subtle and the average user woudlnt find it. But it does exist. I even reinstalled TW2.2 on an unmodded 2nd install to be sure. :lol:


EDIT:
Im going to STFU about old wounds now. A little alcohol, and inadvertantly allowing myself to be drawn into this makes for some the surfacing of stuff i was trying to leave buried. My problem is when i see anyone mention it, i can't help but say something because im still ticked off about it, and probably always will be. The more i think about it, the more pissed i get.

[SimNut]

You’re missing the point. You guys are killing SH3. This is the last resource that is still actively doing anything with mods for SH3. This is it. It’s being ruined.

The sharing of ideas and cooperation is being stifled by a childish ego contest. Instead of open discussion, new discoveries and ideas are kept secret, only to outdo the other guy.

I was shown SH3 from a friend. A few of us play it now. We come from a flight sim community that does lots of modding. All of us are technical enough to figure things out and now we’ve been doing mods ourselves. All of us visited this forum. Every one of us looked around, saw this, and laughed. Then they left, as will I.
Imagine how great it could be if everyone was working together?

This childish behavior is self destructive. Now, along with a few other people who could/would have made significant contributions, chose to leave rather than be a part of this. I’m sure we aren’t the only ones.

Maybe you guys need to get new project managers who can work together. Do it before SH4 comes out. The end result will be nobody will want to participate because you’ll have to join one team and hate the other half of the community just because they are on the other team.........



Jeeze…. Isn’t this how wars get started? Have we not learned anything?

[Boris]

You’re missing the point. You guys are killing SH3. This is the last resource that is still actively doing anything with mods for SH3. This is it. It’s being ruined.

The sharing of ideas and cooperation is being stifled by a childish ego contest. Instead of open discussion, new discoveries and ideas are kept secret, only to outdo the other guy.

I was shown SH3 from a friend. A few of us play it now. We come from a flight sim community that does lots of modding. All of us are technical enough to figure things out and now we’ve been doing mods ourselves. All of us visited this forum. Every one of us looked around, saw this, and laughed. Then they left, as will I.
Imagine how great it could be if everyone was working together?

This childish behavior is self destructive. Now, along with a few other people who could/would have made significant contributions, chose to leave rather than be a part of this. I’m sure we aren’t the only ones.

Maybe you guys need to get new project managers who can work together. Do it before SH4 comes out. The end result will be nobody will want to participate because you’ll have to join one team and hate the other half of the community just because they are on the other team.........



Jeeze…. Isn’t this how wars get started? Have we not learned anything?

The war has already been waged. I don't think SH3 modding is being ruined, and it certainly isn't killing SH3. Personalities clash sometimes, and some people just can't work with others, it's just the way it is. SH3 modding is not going to die because of this.

[Dowly]

@SimNut: I see you are a new member, but did you read the forums, let´s say, four or six months ago? If you didnt, then you dont have a clue what started this 'war' between the teams.

I will always see NYGM the way I see it now (which I wont say, as it would only start a flame war) and I´m sure NYGM team will always have something against TGW team.

[SimNut]

@SimNut: I see you are a new member, but did you read the forums, let´s say, four or six months ago? If you didnt, then you dont have a clue what started this 'war' between the teams.

Does it matter? Then or now, it's stupid.

When the leaders continue to wage a pointless war, people will eventually replace the leaders.

I just hope this kids crap doesn't continue into SH4. It would suck. It would kill modding before it even started.

Mods keep games going.

Idiots keep wars going.

[SimNut]

Here's a perfect example of the way things used to be:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99002

If this was one of the team members, it would have been kept "secret" until the next release, and nobody would have know how it was done.

Get the point?

[SimNut]

If no one cared to share their talents as modders, we would all still be playing STOCK SH3. We would have played it for 2-3 months, then tossed it out the window. But, now it just gets better and better. If you don't like it, don't visit here or Ubi, and make your own mod.
See that's the whole point of the thread in the first place. I visit here to get the info so I can make mods. But now, the information has stopped flowing because the team mods keep everything under wraps until release. People used to share, that has slowed down to a crawl because of this.

It's no longer an open community, it's a secret society.

[terrapin]

If no one cared to share their talents as modders, we would all still be playing STOCK SH3. We would have played it for 2-3 months, then tossed it out the window. But, now it just gets better and better. If you don't like it, don't visit here or Ubi, and make your own mod.
See that's the whole point of the thread in the first place. I visit here to get the info so I can make mods. But now, the information has stopped flowing because the team mods keep everything under wraps until release. People used to share, that has slowed down to a crawl because of this.

It's no longer an open community, it's a secret society.

:down: Not well thought.

[Deimos01]

Quite honestly I dont see what this guy is talking about. Every day I come on these boards to see new threads about new mods. People are always willing to help out others. Shure there is some friction, but a secret society pfffft. Think yer overblowing the whole situation my friend.

You seem to be beleaguing this point to death and it almost feels like you are intentionally trying to incite more friction.

:nope:

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Here's a perfect example of the way things used to be:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99002

If this was one of the team members, it would have been kept "secret" until the next release, and nobody would have know how it was done.

Get the point?

Thats because the suppermods have to be made and pakeged.

And as far as I know there is no "Ill feelings" from eather Dev. teams. I have actuly seen Tedy Bar say good work in A GWX thread! And besides I have seen many mods realsed within the 2 months I have been here, along with 2 suppermods! So quit trying to start a firefight and shut up!

[Ducimus]

Oh for F**k's sake let it go. This thread should have died on page one. Im tired of being reminded about stuff, tired of readin about it, tired of talking about it, tired of seeing it, just let it go.

[SquareSteelBar]

Oh for F**k's sake let it go. This thread should have died on page one. Im tired of being reminded about stuff, tired of readin about it, tired of talking about it, tired of seeing it, just let it go. You got it, mate

What a pointless idle talk...http://forum.allsiemens.com/images/smiles/icon_blahblah.gif

[LaikaFatBum]

Oh for F**k's sake let it go. This thread should have died on page one. Im tired of being reminded about stuff, tired of readin about it, tired of talking about it, tired of seeing it, just let it go.
for someone who admits he here to stir up dtb to keep the bad blood going you a bit rich

[NKVD-crazyivan]

:arrgh!: OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH children please how old are you all....................

We have a common ground regardless of our mod race......lets stop the hacking that should be left to the game code to make it better..

We already have countless threads on who's ripping of whom and whats better than this etc...etc...What is done is done those that have been truly wronged in any way threw cybper theft idea theft etc..etc not being rightfully lifted up for there efforts its been heard thrashed out and now its time to move on..

Our common ground is we are a die hard bunch of SH3 gammers whom love this game with a passion and its many wonderfull Mods that give every one i feel a pretty good choice of great mods big and small to keep this on our hard drives....

I'm no PC wizz but most of the mods i have tried have excellent back up through the devs etc..posting in the right mod forums more often than not gets detialed answers to most questions and in most cases detialed answers on there work is reveiled to one and all to fix a prob or better it to our own taste.

The modding community have every right to punt there product as the best that's just good salesmanship.................

I thank you one and all for bringing me so many extras in this game i think its time to stop splitting hairs.

This forum is great and offers us all a wide range of solutions and ideas that make this already good game great.....

So lets get out there and sink some ships!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ducimus]

Oh for F**k's sake let it go. This thread should have died on page one. Im tired of being reminded about stuff, tired of readin about it, tired of talking about it, tired of seeing it, just let it go.
for someone who admits he here to stir up dtb to keep the bad blood going you a bit rich

Firstly, Stop baiting me. Secondly, i didnt throw the first punch. Thirdly, it doesnt concern you, mind your own buisness.

[Immacolata]

If no one cared to share their talents as modders, we would all still be playing STOCK SH3. We would have played it for 2-3 months, then tossed it out the window. But, now it just gets better and better. If you don't like it, don't visit here or Ubi, and make your own mod.
See that's the whole point of the thread in the first place. I visit here to get the info so I can make mods. But now, the information has stopped flowing because the team mods keep everything under wraps until release. People used to share, that has slowed down to a crawl because of this.

It's no longer an open community, it's a secret society.

I for one find that just natural and applaud it. It is sometimes impossible to find out what the hell is going on. Myriads of mods bob to the surface and if you miss the beat you suddenly find yourself staring at terrapin's homepage and feel completely lost. The fixation of the modding proces into an arbitrary number of collectives is how I like to see things. They find something, they keep it untill they are ready. Fine with me. They do share, but why let other people run away with their work, before they get to harvest the admiration and honour of their release?

[mkubani]

As a moderator on some other flight simulator forum with 4 year experience there, all I can say is that this thread will lead to nothing constructive but may well start another flame war. I would have locked it after the first post.

And as a 3rd party modeller myself for IL-2 Sturmovik/Pacific Fighters sim, I don't see any major issue with this modding community. Good luck and big thank you to all SH 3modders who are willing to sacrifice their spare time for others for free no matter if they are involved in small or large projects.

[Onkel Neal]

We've had out ups and downs but for the most part, people have tried to keep things professional.

[Steeltrap]

From my point of view as a new user of mods (I've been at SubSim a while but only just got a rig able to run the game!) I've found the level of assistance excellent. I've posted questions and received replies soon after. Nobody has commented on my choice of mod. Everything has been as friendly and encouraging as I am used to on this excellent site.

Obviously there have been some issues between various people, but I'm not aware of them so make no comment. Seems that is more a point of contention between modders than anyone else. So long as they all continue to be friendly and offer advice/assistance in the usual fashion, I'm certainly not about to criticise - besides, ALL people have done enough to improve the sim that the odd spat is not going to diminish their achievements, nor my appreciation of them.

I am using NYGM 2.2. Why? Simple - I had to borrow someone's high speed internet to D/L it, and it was smaller than GW. No more than that. I think it is excellent, and I'm equally sure GW is excellent too (as many people have posted when I asked for advice on which mods to try and how to do so).

So, I humbly say "well done" to all and thank my fellow sub-simmers for their help and advice (not to mention some of the excellent funny threads to be found). Whoever has contributed the various pieces, you know who you are, and I am very much enjoying the fruits of your labours. In some ways I think it's best that I don't know the ins and outs of any disputes - to me you modders remain people with far greater knowledge of the sim than I'll ever have and I am always very appreciative that I benefit from that without doing anything other than saying a sincere "thanks!!".

Perhaps this says it best:

:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

[Ducimus]

I just wish the poltics would go away. Right now, looking at an experiment in progress by neal, i find myself wishing i never got invovled in the modding at all. I was much happier before.

[Myxale]

Yeah i gotta agree with Terrapin!
Poor Falcon that became a mess!:shifty:

But anyway...this forums is still top-notch! Sure some squarrel here and barrel there but all in all this board is the most civil i've been. I hope it stays this way. :hmm:

[kiwi_2005]

GW is great and So is NYGM they both good not one is better than the other. They're equal. This shouldn't be about whos mod is better it should be about improving SH3

Make Mods Not War.:arrgh!: And keep bringing them out. Your all doing a good job at it.:yep:

[Safe-Keeper]

GW is great and So is NYGM they both good not one is better than the other. They're equal.I dare say it's more of a matter of taste. If you want to focus on realism, go for NYGM. If you want to focus on content and getting your socks blown off, go for GW. If you want historical events, try the War Ace campaign. And so on.

If you don't like it, don't visit here or Ubi, and make your own mod.How democratic of you.

You’re missing the point. You guys are killing SH3. This is the last resource that is still actively doing anything with mods for SH3. This is it. It’s being ruined.If it's one thing the modders are not doing, it's killing the game.

Here's a perfect example of the way things used to be [...]

If this was one of the team members, it would have been kept "secret" until the next release, and nobody would have know how it was done.And that's because the team members are competing, whereas U-Snafu is on his own.

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Shoot This Thread In The Head Allready!!!!