T3 Tanker with Lights is ready.

[Anvart]

**********

[bigboywooly]

You da man :rock: :rock:
Now wheres the link:hmm:
Thanx Anvart - another great looking job

[Ducimus]

Great work, but i think the lights illluminating the flag is a bit much, its like putting a big billboard on the ship saying, "Shoot here!"

[bigboywooly]

Great work, but i think the lights illluminating the flag is a bit much, its like putting a big billboard on the ship saying, "Shoot here!"

They are only meant for neutral ships and they were lit up to avoid torpedoing

[Ducimus]

True, but not all neutrals were lite up. Some were darkened and even zig zagging.

[bigboywooly]

True but at their own peril

http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB30248.htm

Naval War Staff has sent a T/P to F.O. U/B, ordering that all attacks on French ships are to be avoided at all costs. This means that U-boats cannot operate in the Channel against troop transports. This operation (U 35 see also F.O. U/B West's War Log) was arranged because of Naval War Staff's orders that convoys could be attacked North of the Latitude of Brest even if the escort consisted of French Forces. It can be taken as certain that these transports sail at night; and at night the U-boat must be able to assume that a darkened ship is an enemy ship, even if in convoy. It is often impossible to establish the nationality of ships in convoy even by day and when flags are not being misused, but at night it is quite out of the question. I therefore informed Naval War Staff that, if this order is to stand, I cannot let the boats operate in the Channel

[Ducimus]

Let me rewind a bit.

First, i think this is an awesome mod. Its never been done before. The author of this mod has done something totally different, not just another version of something else, and for that is worthy of high praise, i think this kicks ass.


Now, what im also looking at, is challenging gameplay, and how this will effect it. Naturaly, if you don't like a mod, don't use it, right? Well, i do like this mod, so im trying to figure out how to apply it in such a way to preserve challenging gameplay.

I think on lone neutral ships, this would work great! Hositpal ships espeically. But now think of a night surface attack against a convoy. One of the risks you run, is accidently torpedoing a neutral ship, if any happen to be in there. For the most part i think most neutural have been removed from convoys, but i can't say for sure. So on the assumption theres a neutral in there, how now he's light up like a christams tree while the rest of the convoy is in blacked out. So the danger of accidently torpedoing a neutral ship has been totally removed.

It all varies on what you want really. If your designing your game to where you want to present that risk to the player, then lite up neturals becomes an issue. On the otherhand if you didnt want that risk in your game to begin with, then your've probably removed all neutrals from convoys, at which point my concern over challenging gameplay is irrelvant ;)

[bigboywooly]

Let me rewind a bit.

First, i think this is an awesome mod. Its never been done before. The author of this mod has done something totally different, not just another version of something else, and for that is worthy of high praise, i think this kicks ass.


Now, what im also looking at, is challenging gameplay, and how this will effect it. Naturaly, if you don't like a mod, don't use it, right? Well, i do like this mod, so im trying to figure out how to apply it in such a way to preserve challenging gameplay.

I think on lone neutral ships, this would work great! Hositpal ships espeically. But now think of a night surface attack against a convoy. One of the risks you run, is accidently torpedoing a neutral ship, if any happen to be in there. For the most part i think most neutural have been removed from convoys, but i can't say for sure. So on the assumption theres a neutral in there, how now he's light up like a christams tree while the rest of the convoy is in blacked out. So the danger of accidently torpedoing a neutral ship has been totally removed.

It all varies on what you want really. If your designing your game to where you want to present that risk to the player, then lite up neturals becomes an issue. On the otherhand if you didnt want that risk in your game to begin with, then your've probably removed all neutrals from convoys, at which point my concern over challenging gameplay is irrelvant ;)

:yep: Agreed Decimus
I have removed all neutrals from my convoy because I have just replaced the neutral darkened ships with the lit ones in their rosters - not just the completely neutral but have added them to US as lit ships while they are neutral but the original darkened ships take over when the US enters the war, have done the same with most of the other countries too such as the Dutch,Norway and Greece to name a few

You could go thru the rnd and scr layers to change all single neutral ships to lit ones and leave the convoys alone
A lot of work but depends on how you want to play


I totally agree Anvart has done a great job with this and his other lit ships and I hope he continues to do them all - tho if he doesnt I will be more than happy with his great work so far

[CWorth]

From everything I have read neutrals should not even be in convoys no matter how challenging you want it.It is not accurate as neutrals would not have been in the convoy as they were fair game to the uboats.

I use the GW mod and just today I ran into a convoy off the west coast of Britain that had 3 neutrals tagging along at the rear.

I personally would prefer to have all neutrals lit up and not have any dark ones since you could not attack them anyway without losing renown.

Unless there was a way to make it so the lit ones were untouchable and the non lit ones were able to be attacked without loss of reknown then I would not mind having both.But I doubt that the games code would allow for that.So you have to make a choice of one or the other.And for me the lit up neutrals would be more accurate.

[Boris]

Let me rewind a bit.

First, i think this is an awesome mod. Its never been done before. The author of this mod has done something totally different, not just another version of something else, and for that is worthy of high praise, i think this kicks ass.


Now, what im also looking at, is challenging gameplay, and how this will effect it. Naturaly, if you don't like a mod, don't use it, right? Well, i do like this mod, so im trying to figure out how to apply it in such a way to preserve challenging gameplay.

I think on lone neutral ships, this would work great! Hositpal ships espeically. But now think of a night surface attack against a convoy. One of the risks you run, is accidently torpedoing a neutral ship, if any happen to be in there. For the most part i think most neutural have been removed from convoys, but i can't say for sure. So on the assumption theres a neutral in there, how now he's light up like a christams tree while the rest of the convoy is in blacked out. So the danger of accidently torpedoing a neutral ship has been totally removed.

It all varies on what you want really. If your designing your game to where you want to present that risk to the player, then lite up neturals becomes an issue. On the otherhand if you didnt want that risk in your game to begin with, then your've probably removed all neutrals from convoys, at which point my concern over challenging gameplay is irrelvant ;)

The risk of shooting neutrals in convoy never existed in RL anyway, as anything travelling in convoy was considered a viable target, as I'm sure everyone here knows. So it was really only a fake constraint that the game placed on the player. So, yeah... removing all neutral from convoys would be the ideal solution to the neutrals problem by having no reknown hits and preventing lit ships in convoy.

[iambecomelife]

Neutrals definitely sailed in convoy, although they were distrusted by the skippers of belligerent ships. They would have been blacked out but still had civilian paint schemes IIRC. The "Janus" (below) was one neutral, in-convoy U-Boat victim.

As bigboywooly mentioned, neutrals in convoy are fair game. We could easily clone neutral ships and nations so that some could sail darkened and in convoy (generating positive renown) while others could sail independently with lights blazing (negative renown).

http://uboat.net/allies/ships/photos/sw/janus.jpg
Picture courtesy of Uboat.net

[GT182]

On Neutrals in SHIII. I have sank a few in the years 1940 up thru 1943. Some were even American ships when America was still neutral. Never was I penalized for sinking a neutral ship. As has been said before... if a neutral ship in a convoy heading to the warzone, they are fair game. Of course if they were headiing west but still in a convoy, they'd still be fair game. The only neutrals I never torpedoed were the single ship. But then again, I never have seen very many of them. Only a couple actually, but they were only in a 2 ship group.

Anvart, yours is truely a great mod. Ships lit up make SHIII even better than before. My only concern would be any ship lit in a convoy being true to life, and being lit makes them a better target. Of course if you attack a convoy at night and you're detected, their search lights come on making them a great target too. So I'd think it's a preference call by the player.... some will like lights and some won't. As long as you can make the mods workable thru the JSGME mod installer, it'll be better so everyone can use lights when they want or take them out when they don't want them. Remember, you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time.

One other thought and a question too. Shipping in your home port. Will they show lights too for the ones you made the mods for? That's where the effect will look the greatest I'd think. And if you could make it so their lights go out once they are attacked either by air or sea would be even better.

So, bring on more ships with lighting, they look great. I will use them at times, and at times I'll keep them blacked out. ;)

[Magua]

Any Neutrals in a Convoy would be a legitimate target.

I don't think the Convoy Commander would allow any ships to be lite up, even neutrals.

[CWorth]

We could easily clone neutral ships and nations so that some could sail darkened and in convoy (generating positive renown) while others could sail independently with lights blazing (negative renown).


I was not sure if this was possible but now that I see it is then I would love it.

[Boris]

We could easily clone neutral ships and nations so that some could sail darkened and in convoy (generating positive renown) while others could sail independently with lights blazing (negative renown).


I was not sure if this was possible but now that I see it is then I would love it.

This is certainly possible, but from what I understand it's not that easy. It would take some time and involves hex editing etc.
Nevertheless this is something that should eventually be done IMO.

[bigboywooly]

The trouble is most convoys in SCR and RND are exactly the same from start of war till end
To add these ships properly would require a complete rethink of the way scr and rnd are written
Not just make up a convoy that will spawn all thru the war in identical fashion

Big task but they really need to be written so that convoy structures change month by month with neutral countries coming and going - ie entering the war -
and escort volumes changing, very few escorts start of the war the increasing as years go on to quite large numbers even down to submarines for escorts on the British convoys and the fact the Americans took over escort duties on all atlantic crossings not long after they entered the war

Single ships are not an issue or a problem

[bigboywooly]

We could easily clone neutral ships and nations so that some could sail darkened and in convoy (generating positive renown) while others could sail independently with lights blazing (negative renown).


I was not sure if this was possible but now that I see it is then I would love it.

This is certainly possible, but from what I understand it's not that easy. It would take some time and involves hex editing etc.
Nevertheless this is something that should eventually be done IMO.

You dont need to do anything other than have both the lit and dark ships in the countries roster file - the only thing you need to do is ensure the ship for that particular nation in a convoy is darkened ( original ) and the singles are the lit ( new ships )

[Boris]

We could easily clone neutral ships and nations so that some could sail darkened and in convoy (generating positive renown) while others could sail independently with lights blazing (negative renown).


I was not sure if this was possible but now that I see it is then I would love it.

This is certainly possible, but from what I understand it's not that easy. It would take some time and involves hex editing etc.
Nevertheless this is something that should eventually be done IMO.

You dont need to do anything other than have both the lit and dark ships in the countries roster file - the only thing you need to do is ensure the ship for that particular nation in a convoy is darkened ( original ) and the singles are the lit ( new ships )

Yeah, that solves the lighting problem, but not the neutrality (reknown hit). There's been an idea floating around to clone nations, having the flags of neutral nations but being counted as enemy... to be used only for convoy neutrals.

[bigboywooly]

Well IMHO thats a bit over the top for a couple of neutral in convoys but everyones ideas are different
Personally would rather have no neutrals in a convoy but thats my taste

[panthercules]

I've been salivating over these lighted ships ever since seeing the first post from Anvart on this topic a while back. I've been on a long Drumbeat patrol anyway, so I haven't been in a huge hurry to see these in action, but I've really been hoping that somebody would do the work to include all these lighted ships in a mod that would work with one or both of GW and NYGM by the time I got back to port, when I plan to upgrade to the latest SH3 Commander and either GW or NYGM.

However, having just missed the 100K mark on my foray to the Gulf of Mexico (came back with about 94,800, though actually spread over 2 game patrols given that I took advantage of a handy milkcow), I have now returned to Lorient and am chomping at the bit to get these lighted ships into my soon-to-be-upgraded install.

Thus the big question - is there anyone who has already or will soon (real soon) be releasing a mod that folds all these great lighted ships into a campaign set up that works with the latest GW and/or NYGM (in a way that's reasonably realistic, which to me would mean only single neutrals or perhaps small groups of neutrals traveling by themselves would have lights and no ships in real convoys would have lights)? I want it so bad I'm even tempted to try it myself, although I know absolutely nothing about the mysteries of the rnd and scr layers/files and would almost certainly make a hash out of it (and be lucky to finish by Christmas, if ever).

Even though it might be fun to play around inside those rnd and scr thingies, and even assuming I could eventually figure it out, it seems to be a really inefficient use of time for me and a bunch of other folks to all be trying to do this just for ourselves. If people are waiting for Anvart to churn out even more of these great ships, I can certainly understand that, especially if you really have to add all of the ones you're going to add all at the same time. However, it seems like Anvart's been pumping these great things out for a while now and while I haven't really been keeping count it seems like there'd be enough already to make a real difference in a playable campaign, especially if the work to add the current ships wouldn't be wasted or have to be redone when more new ships become available.

If the work to get these into the campaign files is more repetitive/tedious/lengthy than it is tricky/creative/difficult, I'd be happy to take a chunk of the work and spend some time plowing through it if that would help and someone wouldn't mind explaining exactly what needs to be done to a rnd/scr noob like me.

Of course, thinking about these lighted ships has made me wonder - do you think any single allied ships ever ran at night with lights on (though presumably not on their flags) early in the war in an effort to fool any u-boats nearby into thinking that since they were lit up they must be neutrals so they wouldn't be attacked? Or maybe the allies might have had some Q-ships that would run with lights on at night to attract/fool u-boats into approaching the supposed neutral ship on the surface for inspection and then they could open fire? This might be an interesting way to introduce Q-ships into the game, if we could have some armed allied merchants running alone with lights on.

As you might guess, while I can't wait to see some of these lighted ships in the game, I'm also trying to think of some way to have some game-play reason not to simply ignore/sail away from every lighted merchant I see as soon as I see the lights - I'm thinking the rare possibility that it could be an enemy ship masquerading as a lighted neutral might inject some pretty cool uncertainty to go along with the really cool graphic effect of seeing the lighted ships - what do y'all think?

[bigboywooly]

Possability they ran as neutrals
Donitz seemed to think they would

Then C-in-C Navy spoke of the conduct of the war in general. He said that the next step he intended to take in the war at sea against England, before declaring unrestricted danger zones, was to declare danger zones only against English ships, not against neutrals. He wished first however, to hear F.O. U/B's views. I replied that in my opinion warfare limited to certain nations would not bring the desired results, because:

1)In most cases the U-boat, which has to wait submerged for a suspicious ship, cannot identify the ship's nationality in time to attack without warning.
2)Presumably the enemy would very soon sail his merchant ships under the protection of neutral markings and flags.

The results would be:
a)either many neutrals would be sunk without warning as supposed enemies, which is just what we want to avoid
b)or many enemy ships would get away as supposed neutrals, which we want to avoid ever more.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB30248.htm

[THE_MASK]

Thankyou for these mods . As they say KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK .

[Redwine]

Many thanks !

Do the mod affect any file related to the damage of the sip ?

[GT182]

Here's an idea on neutrals. How about a completely neutral convoy you can come across by chance as with any convoy, and escorted by warships you can take out. Shoot at a warship but miss and hit a neutral and you lose renoun. Only the neutral ships lit with warships blacked out. No searchlights lit on any neutral so they can be used to detect you if you're spotted to help the warships.

[HanSolo78]

@ panthercules

most of anvarts merchants are already included in my campaign ;)

[bigboywooly]

@ panthercules

most of anvarts merchants are already included in my campaign ;)
You have asked me permission?

:o


:rotfl: :rotfl:
Any news on release Anvart ?
I may be able to add to my game before my next Wolfpack patrol:yep:

[bigboywooly]

Just spotted it:oops:
Thanx Anvart

[panthercules]

@ panthercules

most of anvarts merchants are already included in my campaign ;)
You have asked me permission?

:o


Now I'm confused. Anvart - are you saying we (players/modders) would need your permission to:

(1) add these ships into our own campaigns (i.e., to play ourselves)?; or

(2) add these ships into campaigns we would make available (for free) to others to play?; or

(3) both (1) and (2) above?

I'm not commenting on what you're saying/implying with your post above - just wondering what you really mean by it. Also, if these wonderful lighted ships aren't going to be available any time soon inside some campaign that would work with the latest GW and/or NYGM because of some potential "permission" issue, I'd like to know it so I can go ahead and head out on my next patrol without wasting time waiting around in port for something that isn't happening any time soon.

These are the coolest things I've seen come along in a while and I'm just eager to see them in action - keep up the great work :rock:

[Redwine]

Many thanks !

Do the mod affect any file related to the damage of the sip ?
Four blocks for navigating lanterns are added in files Ship.zon.
For full compatibility type of object is 14=Antennae.


:D


I ask because i use NYGM Ship Damage V1.36 beta on this ship, and the .zon is touched by this mod.

Any way i have this ship as NOTMs, and in you mod it is as NLTMs :hmm:

I cant understand this ....

[mortakos]

awesome job.but aren't supposed to be switched off at war times???:-?

[bigboywooly]

awesome job.but aren't supposed to be switched off at war times???:-?

The lit ships are intended for neutral countries which carried lights to avoid being torpedoed

[QB]

HI,

I have just re installed SH111 and the excellent Wolfpack Mod now that I have a pc that's up to the job.

I just noticed this thread and am very keen to get these lit up neutrals into my game. Have I overlooked a dl link? Or are they not useable with the wolf pack mod yet?

Great work btw. :up:

[stabiz]

Yeah, where can a kaleun download this sweety?

[andy_311]

Okay they lt ships a Neutral my qua=estion is what happens in 42 when the US enters the war? Do these ships revert to shock ships or do they retain there lights on? But saying that as well a Neutral ship thats in mid centre of a convoy for example would that not be a becon for possible targets either side of it,what I mean is in game ships are spaced between 300-500m normally 300m you can then calculate or roughly predict in pitch darkness where the ships located.
Just my 2p's worth but I thought it's worth mentioning.

[sh3rules]

Amazing mod!

[bigboywooly]

Okay they lt ships a Neutral my qua=estion is what happens in 42 when the US enters the war? Do these ships revert to shock ships or do they retain there lights on? But saying that as well a Neutral ship thats in mid centre of a convoy for example would that not be a becon for possible targets either side of it,what I mean is in game ships are spaced between 300-500m normally 300m you can then calculate or roughly predict in pitch darkness where the ships located.
Just my 2p's worth but I thought it's worth mentioning.

Thats why when I added them not only did I remove all lit ships from convoys - still leaving some neutrals in - but they also revert to darkened ships when that country enters the war

[shegeek72]

Any news on release Anvart ?
I may be able to add to my game before my next Wolfpack patrol:yep: Look my DL thread

:D
I tried DL from Filefront but got:
"Invalid Key or in use or Missing File

Your download key for the requested file is invalid. Download keys are only valid for 48 hours. Once your download is complete, the key is no longer valid. Keys are also only valid for the original server.

Additionally this error may be caused because the file was not found on the server. "

How do I get a key, or are the files no longer there? :hmm:
--
http://users4.ev1.net/%7Etaragem/moon_sub3.jpg

[QB]

Okay they lt ships a Neutral my qua=estion is what happens in 42 when the US enters the war? Do these ships revert to shock ships or do they retain there lights on? But saying that as well a Neutral ship thats in mid centre of a convoy for example would that not be a becon for possible targets either side of it,what I mean is in game ships are spaced between 300-500m normally 300m you can then calculate or roughly predict in pitch darkness where the ships located.
Just my 2p's worth but I thought it's worth mentioning.

Thats why when I added them not only did I remove all lit ships from convoys - still leaving some neutrals in - but they also revert to darkened ships when that country enters the war

Does that mean we have to do some special kind of editing to get the ships into the game? I noticed on the readme that came with the lit C2, that it says "these ships should be used as neutrals" which suggests a choice.

[Anachronous]

Must be a filefront problem. I dont usually have issues with downloads. Its where I host my stuff too.

Still getting invalid key on every download.. I submitted a ticket for it.

Seems it could be a database issue. It might be a case of re-uploading all the files.

A question while im here. Do these ships replace current ships, or are they separate?

[bigboywooly]

Must be a filefront problem. I dont usually have issues with downloads. Its where I host my stuff too.

Still getting invalid key on every download.. I submitted a ticket for it.

Seems it could be a database issue. It might be a case of re-uploading all the files.

A question while im here. Do these ships replace current ships, or are they separate?

You can add the ships and they will show in the game
But to get them to show properly you will need to do a bit of editing of the scr and rnd

[sh3rules]

I get an error message. Are these files hosted anywhere else?

[bigboywooly]

I get an error message. Are these files hosted anywhere else?

Which files?

http://hosted.filefront.com/Anvart this one works fine for all the ships

[sh3rules]

Thanks!

[Anachronous]

Thanks for the links there Anvart. It took me a while, but I got them all. Ill install later. :)

Got a reply from Filefront.

Invalid key
Sir,
We are working to resolve this issue. It should be fixed soon.
LaChandra Taylor
Customer Support Rep, FileFront
Ziff Davis Media Game Group

[FIREWALL]

cant find t-3 on filefront or rapidshare. alot of others which i already dl. i guess i missunderstood.:cry:

[sh3rules]

I think it's the one called "NLTMs".

[Jmack]

once i read somewhere that the big liners from britain crossed the atlantic with lights on cause they where faster than anything on the sea ... this i would like to see in game

i believe this is a great mod ... and it can be very well used in lone ships like liners and hospital ships ...